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IGeneX Results negative what does this mean?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Jlc26, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Jlc26

    Jlc26

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    My Igenex Results are negative. My doctor is following up with a Lyme urine antigen test.
    The Igenex report says that bands 41 and 83-93 are cross reactive for viruses HSV, EBV, HCV, and Syphilis, so because 39 was not a +, the results say that I am negative for Lyme. I am negative for Epstein Barr virus, West Nile, CMV, Strep, Crypto, Bartonella, etc... I do have Mycoplasma Pneumonia, with a positive IGG and negative IGM.

    What do you think? Is band 39 cross reactive for anything but Lyme?

    Igenex IgM

    39 kDa - IND
    41 kDa - +
    83-93 kDa - +
     
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  2. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Band 39 is specific to Bb, the Lyme bacteria.

    Most LLMDs read IND as positive indicating exposure. If you hadn't been exposed, there wouldn't be any activity on a Bb specific band.

    Many people have weakly positive tests as the bacteria evades the immune system. Occasionally an antibiotic challenge makes further tests more strongly positive as they "wake up" the immune system.

    An antibiotic challenge is typically recommended before the urine test as well. The urine test is typically considered less reliable than the WBs though. Usually multiple samples are required to find Lyme bacteria due to the way they are shed in the urine. I wouldn't put much stock in the results of a one time sample.

    Have you considered a test like the Neuroscience iSpot?

    Testing can only tell you so much at this point in time. Lyme remains a clinical diagnosis made by those familiar with the disease and the symptoms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
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  3. Vojta

    Vojta Senior Member

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    Hi, I had also negative or inconlusive western blot tests for years and now I have my second LTT positive for lyme. So I think your result still doesn't rule out late stage lyme.
     
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  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Any sign of activity is showing borrelia activity in the system. The level of immune response for antigen is just lower, which is usually common with an overwhelmed immune system. As well as being untreated for longer periods of time. Some of the sickest patients test completely negative!
     
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  5. Jlc26

    Jlc26

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    Thank you Ema, Vojta, and Martial! The iSpot is the same test as the LTT-Melisa for Lyme right? They basically both test for the T-cell response/memory. How did you get the LTT/iSpot/Elispot test in the United States, and how much does it cost?
     
  6. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Either through your doctor where it may be covered by insurance or through a lab service such as this.

    http://www.truehealthlabs.com/iSpot-Lyme-Test-p/neuroscience_5200.htm
     
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  7. Jlc26

    Jlc26

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    Ok, great. Thank you! I will ask my doctor about it.
     
  8. Jlc26

    Jlc26

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    I just came back positive for lyme via urine PCR. I've been put on Minocycline and Plaquenil. I have not noticed any difference so far. Has anyone here had success with antibiotics?
     
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    The Igenex urine test used to be quite bad. Basically it showed up with a ton of false-positives for all of the uninfected participants in a small study, when samples were anonymously sent 5 different times for each of the 10 participants. But that was around 2003 - does anyone know if it's improved?

    Coincidentally, that study also showed that the mainstream Western Blot is subject to a very high rate of false negatives. So having a result which is CDC-defined as negative doesn't mean there's no infection. Anyhow, Lyme treatment has been working well for me, and I hope it does for you as well :hug:

    If there is a Lyme infection, then when it is dying off it should cause a Jarisch-Herxheimer (herx) reaction. Basically when spirochetes such as Lyme or Syphilis die off, they release a certain endotoxin which can cause fever, chills, hypotension, etc. But for me at least it often takes a few days to hit after starting a new course of antibiotics. Though if it wasn't appearing within a week or so, I'd be a little dubious of the Lyme diagnosis (or the dosage of the antibiotics).
     
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  10. Jlc26

    Jlc26

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    The WB as shown above also showed bands 39,41, and 83-93. I had heard that the urine antigen test was often false positive for people in the past, but I don't think the PCR test would be a false positive. Is that right? I assume if Lyme treatment works, I will have a herx. Igenex says that a herx may not happen for 3 weeks or more of taking the antibiotics, and I've heard that some people herx more easily than others. What's the difference between truly having a herx and experiencing die off symptoms? Also, I started on Minocycline and will add plaquenil later, so I probably wouldn't herx without a cyst buster right? I'm only on 100mg twice a day of mino and 200mg once a day on plaquenil.
     
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    A Jarisch-Herxheimer (herx) reaction only applies to the reaction that occurs when spirochetes die off. "Die off" might be used to refer to other bacteria or infections. It shouldn't be used to refer to viruses though, since antivirals don't act by killing the viruses. A herx is something that has been scientifically observed and studied quite a bit, dating back to Syphilis research. Generic "die off" seems to be more hypothetical, and based on anecdotal reports rather than research.
    If enough spirochetes are dying, there should be a Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction. While Lyme might form some cysts, I don't think it has ever been suggested that it only consists of cysts at any point. Thus if there is a Lyme infection, the right antibiotics should be killing off the other forms and provoking the reaction.
     
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  12. Vojta

    Vojta Senior Member

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    Well, I have been treated with antibiotics on and off for years because of diagnosis of late stage lyme without any positive tests. I have never had herx reaction. This year after acute encephalitis episode (while I was without abx) my LTT was very positive and again no herx after starting antibiotics again. And I'm permanently much worse than year ago. So I guess there is possibility that it was wrong diagnosis all along and lyme LTT cross-reacts with some other pathogen(s).

    Yes, I would expect very high specificity from PCR test too unlike antibody test cited above. I would feel more confident about trying lyme treatment with that result. You may consider adding macrolide antibiotic like azithromycine to your protocol.
     
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  13. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    I may be wrong here
    Are you from Europe?, then maybe you may need to test for Europen strains
    There are usually coinfections.
     

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