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If you have not yet done so, you could try sulbutiamine!

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Biohacker, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. Biohacker

    Biohacker *****

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    I just introduced myself in the members forum and realized that a lot of CFS sufferers have not tried sulbutiamine, which for me is the only thing that has worked, and it works WELL. At 800/mg per day, after a couple days loading period, it completely resolves my CFS. And when I stop taking it, about five days later, my symptoms return. I notice a large effect both in my mind as well as physical energy. Interestingly, thiamine and benfotiamine do nothing for me, and sulbutiamine is the only one shown to cross the BBB.

    Here is a little reading that can help add some extra information:

    High-dose thiamine improves the symptoms of fibromyalgia.

    Thiamine and Fatigue in Inflammatory Bowel Diseases: An Open-label Pilot Study.

    Pharmacologic and therapeutic features of sulbutiamine.

    Adjuvant role of vitamin B analogue (sulbutiamine) with anti-infective treatment in infection associated asthenia.

    There is a lot more reading as well on how it affects memory and other benefits, but I think these are the important ones related to CFS.
     
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Just gave me a headache. Can't remember the dose as it was awhile ago, have been looking at it again of late, bulk powders and cap my own so can use lower dose, 100mg and adjust from there. Energy from this would be good but I'm also looking at it to see if it helps general neuropathy as vitamin b1 has helped some with this, I wonder if it being fat soluble the effects might last longer?

    Apparently Osama bin laden took massive doses to overcome fatigue from whatever condition he had(can't recall). It's also in a lot of energy sups like spike. Be interesting to see how others respond to it?
     
  3. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    @heapsreal . Osama Bin Ladin???? Wow, you learn something everyday from this forum. Very interesting. Thanks.:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  4. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Ha ha yeah where did you hear about the bin laden thing?
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Probably wikipedia. Where all the facts are. Im not In the know with the taliban.
     
    beaverfury likes this.
  6. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    I thought you may have been his personal physician or something.
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    ote="heapsreal, post: 412490, member: 187"]Probably wikipedia. Where all the facts are. Im not In the know with the taliban.[/quote]
    Wikipedia under addisons disease. Bin Laden was said to have had addisons and medicated with sulbutiamine, allegedly.
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I would have given him a bullet proof vest. Would serve him better then sulbutiamine???
     
    beaverfury likes this.
  9. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Ha ha ha yes true
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  10. wdb

    wdb Admin

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    SOC and Waverunner like this.
  11. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years First Do No Harm

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    Shah SN; Sulbutiamine Study Group. Adjuvant role of vitamin B analogue (sulbutiamine) with anti-infective treatment in infection associated asthenia. J Assoc Physicians India. (2003)

    See discussion here:
    http://examine.com/supplements/Sulbutiamine/

    2.7. Fatigue
    One study has been conducted on chronic postinfectious fatigue (CPIF) with sulbutiamine at either 400 or 600mg daily for 28 days noted that both groups had significantly less fatigue than placebo, but that for the most part there was no significant difference between groups with the 600mg group inconsistently performing better at times.[9] A similar study using a large (uncontrolled, unblinded) sample of persons seeing their doctors about infection who reported at least one symptom of fatigue given 400mg Sulbutiamine at breakfast daily for 15 days alongside their anti-infective treatment noted complete resolution of self-reported asthenic symptoms in 51.7% of the study population.[10]

    Improvement has also been noted regarding fatigue in 91.37% of persons tested (n=60) with Multiple Sclerosis, with 74.13% of the sample reporting the improvement as 'substantial' (analysis was done via subjective improvement) with no reported exacerbation in fatigue state.[11]
     
  12. wdb

    wdb Admin

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    That is odd they reference the same placebo controlled study saying 'both groups had significantly less fatigue than placebo' but I don't see anywhere in the paper that says that ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
    Waverunner likes this.
  13. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Hi Heaps, actually it wouldn't have as the mass killer croaked from a head shot.
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  14. Biohacker

    Biohacker *****

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    Yes, I remember UBL being known to take it as well. Hasn't given me any murderous thoughts or a messiah complex though, so that's good.

    I'm still learning about thiamine metabolism, it would be great to find polymorphisms that cause thiamine to not be absorbed properly or excreted too quickly as that could be an indicator of who will respond positively. Yes,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  15. Lynn

    Lynn Senior Member

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    Hi Biohacker,

    For the last six months I have taken 1200 mg of thiamine daily with very good results in energy, cognition and just being able to stand. Unfortunately about 10 days after starting the therapy, I developed chronic hives. I have had CFS for 17 years and hives were never a symptom. Do you think trying sulbutiamine would give me the same results as thiamine in energy but not the hives? Perhaps sulbutiamine uses a different pathway in the body?

    Lynn
     
  16. Biohacker

    Biohacker *****

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    Hi Lynn,

    Did the hives go away when you stopped thiamine? Or you are still taking it? I have no idea if sulbutiamine would be any different.
     
  17. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    Sounds like you have some bactera in you with thiamine destroying enzymes being produced by them.
     
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I found sulbutiamine at a dose of 300 mg pretty effective at treating brain fog, increasing mental focus, and for improving mental stamina.

    If I take 300 mg of sulbutiamine in the morning, I find I have a very focused and productive day. I found sulbutiamine especially useful when undertaking complex tasks with lots of details that tax the memory — the sort of tasks that normally are very difficult / impossible to do with brain fog.

    The only problem for me is that that next day after taking sulbutiamine, I feel depleted — as if sulbutiamine had flogged me like a dead horse, in order to squeeze out the last drops of cognition from my brain!

    Decades ago, in my occasional youthful experiments with stimulants like amphetamines, I used to get the same effects: I felt great while on the stimulant, but then felt very mentally depleted and flat the next day or two (and for that reason I avoided stimulants thereafter).

    I find that sulbutiamine is a bit like a stimulant: it gives you double energy and focus one day, but the next day you feel a little bit depleted.

    I have to admit that I have not tried taking sulbutiamine for more than one day in a row, so I am not sure what would happen if I did take it continuously.

    Anyone else have similar experiences with sulbutiamine?

    I would like to find a solution for this next day depletion, as the cognitive benefits of sulbutiamine are pretty good.


    Note that sulbutiamine is considered to be a nootropic drug/supplement (pronounced Noah-Tropic). Nootropics are supplements or drugs which increase cognitive abilities. A list of various nootropics is found here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  19. Lynn

    Lynn Senior Member

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    The thiamine made such a difference in my life that i haven't been willing to stop taking it. I am looking for other avenues because I don't want to face the life had before taking the thiamine.

    Lynn
     
  20. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Many people are constantly tired from always being on the go. This can also lead to a lack of focus and even endurance. If you are having any of these issues, feelings of anxiety[​IMG], or even something as simple as extra stress, then it only makes sense to seek out natural solutions.
    What is Sulbutiamine?
    Sulbutiamine is a synthetic version of thiamine which was discovered in Japan by researchers trying to develop a way people could better absorb thiamine. This supplement is lipid soluble, but will still mix in water. Sulbutiamine has several benefits, ranging from an improvement of strength to relaxation and even helping users to convert[​IMG] food into energy more efficiently.
    The supplement works by crossing the blood-brain barrier fairly efficiently and raising the levels of thiamine and thiamine phosphate esters in the brain [1]. It is also known as a brain supplement, which is meant to promote increased brain energy and cognitive function. There is also some evidence to suggest that sulbutiamine may be helpful with neurotransmission [2].
    Sulbutiamine Side Effects and Benefits
    This nutritional supplement[​IMG], which also goes by the name of Arcalion, is widely used by athletes interested in improving not only strength but also recovery time. In addition to these advantageous sulbutiamine side effects, this substance is also known to help improve one's stamina and endurance [2].
    Other reported sulbutiamine benefits include those related to a generally improved mood and enhanced feeling of well-being. There is also an increase in energy and mental alertness [2].
    Sulbutiamine Dosage
    Taken daily, the recommended sulbutiamine dosage is 12.5 mg/kg [3]. Many users report taking anywhere between 100 and 1200 mg per day, usually in evenly divided doses two or even three times a day. It may be taken with or without food, although taking sulbutiamine with a meal is recommended, since this supplement[​IMG] is fat soluble.

    http://nootropicnexus.com/products/sulbutiamine-powder-25g-tub
     

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