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If H2S is the cause? Is Bismuth subsalicylate the treatment?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Frank, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

    Lyme disease

    Hi everybody,

    I have never been tested for lyme. But is there any symptoms that seperate lyme patients from CFS ones? Somthing like fever, sweating , etc? On the other hand my mother and I got CFS and Fibro both in our 20s. So, I always think my case is mostly due to weak genetics rather than a bug.

  2. klutzo

    klutzo Senior Member

    Lyme symptom Lists/ Cipro

    Hi SARA,
    I just saw your post and suggest that you Google "Lyme symptom list", or go to www.lymenet.org, join their flash discussion forum, look in the medical questions section in there and do a search for the list. Dr. Burrascano has put out the most comprehensive one. The symptom lists are almost identical, but there are a few differences.

    I was finally diagnosed precisely because I developed a common Lyme symptom that was not on the FMS/CFS list, and that was totally out of character for me. It is a stage III symptom though, so Lyme patients in earlier stages will not have it. It is called Lyme rage, and it makes ordinary angry outbursts look like a day at the beach.

    If In doubt, the best way to tell is by a trial of treatment. It is far cheaper than blood testing and more reliable too. High dose Doxycycline should make your symptoms worse at first, not better, if you have Lyme. This is called "herxing" and occurs when the strong endotoxins Borrelia produces are dying off. Borrelia is the pathogen that causes Lyme Disease. The reason you want Doxy specifically is that it works by preventing reproduction, not by outright killing, so you only get the mild die-off of older organisms, instead of a possibly dangerous herx that could cause organ damage or worse. The degree of herx depends on your bacterial load, but there is no sense in taking chances.

    - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -- - -- - - - - -- - - - - - --
    I've been studying Lyme and going to LymeNet since 2003 and though I am no antibiotic expert, the overwhelming consensus by the patients and experts there is that fluroquinolones do not kill Borrelia. They DO kill Bartonella, a common coinfection with Lyme, so maybe confusion has arisen from that. Also, many drugs work in stage I that do not work at all in other stages. One example would be the use of Doxy in stage I to cure Lyme, or as a test at any stage, or to reduce the pathogenic load in later stages so that IVs can be tolerated, but if you are in stage III, you usually need IV Rocephin for quite awhile. Yes, sometimes different antibiotics have to be tried, since we are all different, but having several Lyme pals who see LLMDs, I can tell you that they are unanimous that FQs will not get rid of Lyme and even worse, can cause serious reactivation of viruses. In any case, I've had high dose Cipro for sinus infection in stage III Lyme and had no herx reaction, whereas Samento, which was my major treatment, caused herxes from hell.
    I will however, check out what you suggested, as I am very curious. PubMed is a conventional source, and often such sources are operating under the assumption that Lyme is easily killed by 3 weeks of low dose broad spectrum antibiotics, and without any understanding of the stealth aspects of the pathogen and it's pleomorphic abilities. They will judge it gone, when it's merely hiding in cell wall deficient form.

  3. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    I have had Lyme for 11 years with no treatment as I only found out last year. The way I found out was due to consulting a naturapath via e-mail who asked me if I had considered Lyme Disease. I had not.

    I read up on it and found that there are a few specific symptoms which I had, namely, transient joint pain and swelling and at the start of the extreme level of my lifelong sickness, during a period when I was walking in a wooded area with no socks, a sudden onset of what I now see was brain inflamation. Another symptom I had which is common was neuralgic pain in the face. I had no rash.

    I had a doctor look at my blood on darkfield microscopy and he said there were borrelia like bacteria there. He would treat me with abx but I knew that I could not take any medications by that time with severe mcs.

    I saw another doctor who energy tested me and said I had a bad infection of borrelia and he also did a blood test which confirmed it. I had some photon therapy but now I know that I should not have tried it as some people have been made worse by it and they were not as sick as me. Luckily I stopped in time. This doctor thinks I had a stroke.

    So I have had little/no treatment and now believe I am in stage III or maybe stage IV because of my heart. It is not posible for me to know exactly what is going on inside as I have no doctor or health insurance but I know my heart is in trouble. Thankfully it has eased since i stopped everything apart from basic survival and changed my diet.

    The only option I have is to attempt natural healing. I think my illness has progressed quickly because I already had cfs when I got Lyme. And due to the stress of my marriage which broke up fortunately for me as I don't think that I would still be surviving otherwise.

    So there are a number of things which will point to Lyme and not just cfs. It takes time to plough through the information so good luck!

  4. Sue C

    Sue C Sue C

    During pre-diagnosis, was tested for Lyme twice, in 2000 (last time) by a rheumatologist. My results have been negative but sometimes my symptoms sure do sound similar to chronic Lyme. But as you know, if we have had it this long it may be progressive stage now. In the late 1980s I live in northwest jersey where I later learned a deer tick specific to that area produced Lyme named for that specific agent. Cost and specificity make it doubtful that I will have further testing. Have to accept many limitations but keep hopefully vigilant. Sue C.
  5. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    Hi Sue

    I have heard there is a way to find out if it is Lyme - take Sammento and if you herx then it is. Best though to get onto Lymenet flash and ask advice.
  6. neuf08

    neuf08 Guest

    Well, back to the original post, I really do believe that a good probiotic really goes a long way to helping heal the gut and address a lot of these symptoms. It can do a lot to help reduce gas and bloating, and just help with overall digestion as well. I take a probiotic everyday, the Acidophilus Pearls, and I make sure to take an extra dose if I'm traveling, eating something that doesn't agree with me, or have been on any antibiotics. It really seems to make a huge difference for many people. My cousin ended up with major issues after a bout of really bad eColi, and the only thing that would help her get back to normal was a probiotic. I'd much rather take that on a regular basis that Pepto Bismal.
  7. Sammy


    Dont think it has been mentioned(but my brain fog is realy bad today)but Bismuth IS TOXIC, if absorbed....being that it is a heavy metal. I have two bottles at the moment but my current gastroenterologist is not comfortable for me to try.

    Any info/ideas regarding systemic absorption????

    Keeping in mind many people suffer from LGS(leaky gut syndrome)along with CFS etc
  8. JT1024

    JT1024 Senior Member

    Bismuth subsalicylate (BSS) is also in Kaopectate and Maalox Total Relief in the US.

    There is also a warning regarding BSS since it is chemically related to aspirin and may cause serious adverse effects such as bleeding.
  9. sven57

    sven57 Guest

    Where to get Zinc Acetate

    Everything I see out there is Zinc Gluconate - or some other kind of Zinc - where can you get Zinc Acetate?

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