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If CFS is an autoimmune disease, could boosting the immune system be harmful?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Waverunner, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. pilgrim



    I think autoimmunity is secondary to developing CFS. Rather than boosting the immune system it's probably safer trying and remove the causes of immune disturbances. There are too many cases of people getting better on antivirals, antibiotics, gcmaf etc. to ignore that pathogens are involved at some level.

    Chronic infections are important in a variety of autoimmune and neurodegenerative diseases, such as MS, Lupus (SLE), among others, and neurodegenerative diseases, such as Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS). We previously proposed that many and perhaps a majority of these patients might be suffering from mycoplasmal and other infections that can cause, in part, their complex signs and symptoms. Systemic chronic infections (caused by bacteria such as Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, Borrelia, Brucella, etc. or viruses such as CMV, HHV6, EV or enterovirus, etc.) can invade virtually every human tissue and can compromise the immune system, permitting opportunistic infections by other bacteria, viruses, fungi and yeast. Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, Borrelia, Rickettsia and other pathogens can also directly damage and kill nerve cells in a process called apoptosis, resulting in nervous system degeneration.

    When mycoplasmas exit certain cells, such as synovial cells, nerve cells, among others that can be infected, they can stimulate an autoimmune response. This can occur by different mechanisms. One mechanism that has intrigued us is that when certain microorganisms, such as certain species of mycoplasmas, exit from invaded cells, they carry part of the host cell membrane on their surface. This may trigger the immune system to respond to the host antigens on the foreign microorganism. Alternatively, some microorganisms display surface antigens that mimic host cell surface antigens, and these may stimulate autoimmune responses.

    MS patients responding to antibiotics
  2. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

    I haven't the to read through the whole thread so can someone more knowledgable tell me... I don't suffer from cold's flu or anything else, haven't done since I became ill 6 years ago. I just basically feel ill all the time. Others around are bunged up complaining, coughing sneezing etc etc. So I have always presumed I have an overactive immune system, does that mean I have an autoimmune disease? Had consistently high EBV and CMV levels, immunovir after a week made me feel so ill......Valtrex also.....I don't have staying power with medications as I want to maintain my level of functioning and am always frightened it may be reduced and stay there. Anyone like me had positive experience of any immune modulators?
  3. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

    What does overactive mean? The immune system is very complex and nobody understands it fully, so overactive in what sense? In a leukemia, lupus, etc sense?
    Years ago, I had RA symptoms and got treated for that with no results, got worse in fact. It turned out it was linked to a Borrelia infection contracted many years before.
    Personally, I believe that once you developed CFS going down the autoimmune route will lead nowhere, in fact it may make people worse over time. But again, there's a lot of expensive drugs for autoimmune conditions to be sold which pushes the medical community towards that idea.

    I looked up the drug mentioned at the beginning of the thread and it appears it works by depleting B lymphocytes. Well, could it be that it works by depleting cells infected by something, therefore reducing the pathogens load in the body? B cells are notoriously infected by Borrelia as well as EBV.
  4. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

    Yes, I remember about 5 years ago a news story on the radio said they've found that tetanus shots confer immunity to MS. I had had two tetanus shots a year apart as I had forgotton I had the first (they last 10 years) so I guess I'm protected. But that shows there is an infection of some sort in MS. It does not mean that there is no genetic or dietary thing-gone-wrong to lay one open to that infection though.

  5. Tia

    Tia Senior Member

    Yes. I've thought about this to, that boosting the immunesystem even more than it already is..that can't be good. We should try to supress it alittle bit instead. Weirdest thing happened to me after I'd been sick in two flues last fall, after Id been in bed for 2 months, I sudenly found myself with a major eneergyreserve. I was like..well (!) for two or three whole weeks! Could it be that since my immunesystem had been overloaded with virus plus the ME for a while that something clicked? Or was it because I had spent to much time n bed, maybe? Interesting nontheless because I'm born with ME and have NEVER experienced such energy.
  6. ramakentesh

    ramakentesh Senior Member

    i dont. Ive never heard of an infection that fluctuates in its course (waxing and waning), does no measurable progressive damage over time and which has an 80% female to male ratio.
  7. pilgrim


    Chronic infection of chlamydia pneumonia's symptoms cycle over time. Damage and impact usually differ from person to person. Some develop MS and other autoimmune diseases, while others manage to get away with less damage. I wouldn't know about differences between men and women...
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Mya,

    I crashed in 1987 with a severe flu like illness that both my wife and I got. She got better in 3 months, I didn't even start healing for 17 years, when I started mb12. From decades of experience as far as I can see, this syndrom can start with any number of viruses or stressors and then it is self sustaining cycle. The active b12 protocol apears to deal with mosrt varieties. Good luck. SOme people have sucess with Olive Leaf Extract, I did, with the active b12 protocol.
  9. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

    I get better when drinking, and thats probably because it depresses the immune system reaction. Becaus of this i am expecting immonoglobulins and rituximab to work in this subset im probably in!
  10. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

    Western PA USA
    Since autoimmune dysfunction is common in ME/SEID there is a possibility that ME/SEID is an autoimmune disease.

    As these are my autoimmune dysfunction symptoms:
    Immune Dysfunction:
    ●chronic general ill or flu-like feeling,most notably post-exertionally●tender lymph nodes
    ●recurrent sore throat●alcohol intolerant●new chemical sensitivities(MCS is common in SEID)
    ●hyper-sensitivity to many medications with very rare side-effects●allergies
    ●sinus problems(mostly mucus blockage/hardening in passage ways)

    I believe my Overload phenomena symptoms are autoimmune overlapping as well.
    Such as:

    ●hypersiensitivites to light, sound motion, odors●Inability to block out background noise and focus
    on conversation●Informational overload with inability to multi-task
    ●Motor overload, with staggaring and weakness●dizziness●numbness●tinnitus (ringing in the ears)
  11. msf

    msf Senior Member

    How about the counter-question? If ME is caused by chronic infections, then would taking immune suppressants do us more harm than good?

    I think before ME has been proven to be one thing or the other (or both), then it is a bit early to be thinking about the best way to treat the immune system. I think people just need to keep both possibilities in mind, and if they feel that they are getting worse on steroids, Rituximab, GCMAF or Equilibrant, to stop taking it until they know more about what might be causing this.

    Also, as someone pointed out above, one part of the immune system might be over-reactive and another part under-reactive - this is what KDM is talking about when he mentions TH1/2 deficiencies. If this is the case, the treatment for it would be more complicated than merely taking an 'immunosuppressant' or 'immunostimulant'

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