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Ideas for rotating sleep meds

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by CBS64, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    For myself Doxepin didnt do a thing.. while doxylamine succinate (sp?) was quite useful. It could well all just depend on the individual.

    What my doctor has told me that some can get tollerance issues with some benzos eg Temazapam.. after only 5 days.
    All this stuff depends on the individual and so one can tell you if you will get issues or not, so one really needs to weigh up benefits verses possible risks and if those risks are worth it for you.

    I think the big thing is if one does start to develop issues or these drugs stop working well (tollerence)... do not go and increase dose, continuing on taking in the same manner.
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  2. CBS64

    CBS64

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    Does Gabapentin work like Klonopin (anti-seizure) for sleep? Does it initiate and prolong sleep?
     
  3. Shoesies

    Shoesies Senior Member

    GABA did not work. Glycine at ten times recommended dosage did not work (it did bulk muscles though). Ambien, nope. Amitriptyline, nope. Xanax, yep...stops working, detox hell...no mas. Any ideas? I need sleep!!!
     
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    doxepin, mirtazapine, seroquel, phenergan, atarax, diphenhydramine, doxylamine, periactin, baclofen, zopiclone, temazapam, mogadon, lyrica, gabatril, sometimes a combo will work alot better say a benzo to help u get to sleep and then say something like doxepin or mirtazapine to keep u alseep?? When desperate for sleep seroquel is probably the big gun? But read up on it first.
     
    ggingues likes this.
  5. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I agree with Heaps that a combo of things in small doses often works better than a larger dose of one thing. This was the recommendation of my ANS specialist.

    Sushi
     
    Little Bluestem and heapsreal like this.
  6. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Gabapentin improves slow wave sleep (deep sleep). Actually, klonopin impairs deep sleep, so I would say gabapentin works better. The mechanism of action of the two drugs is not the same.
     
  7. Shoesies

    Shoesies Senior Member

    seroquel, did not work. phenergan either. diphenhydramine, built up tolerance does not touch it, temazapam, nope, baclofen, have it - only helps for spasms not sleep, lyrica, nope. Will try researching the others and very thankful for the suggestions. I do believe I am a tough case with sleep issues. Thanks heapsreal
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I sort of get what your going through, quick tolerance to things or just plain dont work. Im in a constant battle of rotation, trial and error to get sleep.

    Something to consider and look into further is cortisol cycle and rhthym, high in morning and low at night, trying to manipulate that the best way u can with supps and adrenal hormones, cortisol blockers etc this has helped improve my sleep quality better and sleep meds arent hit and miss as much.

    But another thing i have been reading about for fixing sleep rhthyms is a drug called cycloset which is a low dose dopamine agonist used in type 2 diabetes. It is suppose to help reset our body clock through regulating the hypothalamus and helps the body to increase its own natural morning cortisol production etc in a more normal cyclic fashion. Its taken when one wakes up in the morning. This use and theory of cycloset is being used by dr jack kruse with success, so maybe google some of this stuff and see if it helps. Some of dr kruses stuff is abit out there but this cycloset theory makes sense as well as his adrenal fatigue info which is abit different to other common info out there.

    Cycloset and FBG update, oh my!
    This is the OSA battling the cycloset......I'd tell you to give it some time to work itself through. If sleep is still an issue You may want to increase DHEA to help foster sleep. The cycloset can cause an upset stomach because of how it dramatically alters the gut flora because of the acute changes in cortisol and dopamine in the brain and the gut.



    Remember the cycloset is made for increasing AM cortisol......Works awesome and is a great way to stop taking hydrocortisone in LR states or in Adrenal fatigue. Lots of educational consultants are hearing about how I might consider to use it now.



    Cortisol is a stress hormone that is linked with dopamine production in the brain. Levels of cortisol in the bloodstream are highest during rising in the AM, which in turn leads to higher dopamine levels during daytime. Dopamine, a neurotransmitter, is directly responsible for a number of important functions in the brain, including attention and learning when we rise.



    Recent studies have suggested that the circadian neuroendocrine rhythm mediated by dopamine and serotonin plays a large role in insulin sensitivity. In people without diabetes, the postmeal state causes a decline in endogenous glucose production due to suppression of glucagon and inhibition of lipolysis. In individuals with T2D, a drop in dopamine levels is thought to lead to an inadequate hypothalamus response, resulting in elevated levels of blood glucose, free fatty acids (FFA), and triglycerides (TG), which contribute to insulin resistance, visceral adiposity, and beta-cell dysfunction. Clinical studies suggest that bromocriptine-QR administered in the morning (within 2 hours of waking) mimics the normal peak of dopamine in the central nervous system, consequently thought to reset this circadian rhythm. The main target organ of bromocriptine is the brain.



    However, subsequent effects have been observed in adipose tissue (due to decreased levels of glucose, FFAs, and TGs) and the liver (reduced hepatic gluconeogenesis due to reduced cortisol levels in response to dopamine). Higher brain dopamine levels will reduce the cortisol spikes seen in Leptin resistant states like T2D or IR.​
    http://jackkruse.com/forum/showthread.php?2927-Cycloset-and-FBG-update-oh-my!
     
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Cycloset and FBG update, oh my!
    Cycloset resets the circadian clock to light. How do we see it clinically......a broken Cortisol/DHEA/melatonin axis on labs. This si why PCOS is always tied to IR. Many ladies with PCOS dont have T2D but will soon enough. PCOS is a train stop before T2D due to circadian mismatches that speed your chemical clocks up. Environmental pressures that are not natural is what causes these diseases. You cant fix them until you get this foundational principle down

    Cycloset and FBG update, oh my!
    Remember the cycloset is made for increasing AM cortisol......Works awesome and is a great way to stop taking hydrocortisone in LR states or in Adrenal fatigue. Lots of educational consultants are hearing about how I might consider to use it now.



    Cortisol is a stress hormone that is linked with dopamine production in the brain. Levels of cortisol in the bloodstream are highest during rising in the AM, which in turn leads to higher dopamine levels during daytime. Dopamine, a neurotransmitter, is directly responsible for a number of important functions in the brain, including attention and learning when we rise.



    Recent studies have suggested that the circadian neuroendocrine rhythm mediated by dopamine and serotonin plays a large role in insulin sensitivity. In people without diabetes, the postmeal state causes a decline in endogenous glucose production due to suppression of glucagon and inhibition of lipolysis. In individuals with T2D, a drop in dopamine levels is thought to lead to an inadequate hypothalamus response, resulting in elevated levels of blood glucose, free fatty acids (FFA), and triglycerides (TG), which contribute to insulin resistance, visceral adiposity, and beta-cell dysfunction. (The real cause of the dawning phenomena: as the clock in the liver PEPCK time is off due to the chemical clock in the brain being off)



    Clinical studies suggest that bromocriptine-QR administered in the morning (within 2 hours of waking) mimics the normal peak of dopamine in the central nervous system, consequently thought to reset this circadian rhythm. The main target organ of bromocriptine is the brain.



    However, subsequent effects have been observed in adipose tissue (due to decreased levels of glucose, FFAs, and TGs) and the liver (reduced hepatic gluconeogenesis due to reduced cortisol levels in response to dopamine). Higher brain dopamine levels will reduce the cortisol spikes seen in Leptin resistant states like T2D or IR.​
     
  10. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Slightly sideways to this topic, I added potassium last night and woke up half the normal times.

    I had completely forgotten that when experimenting with methylation, I noticed potassium relieved muscle soreness. My neck and shoulders have been astonishingly tight, and getting worse as my sleep has degenerated into napping all night.

    I took 500mg potassium at bedtime with my magnesium and slept better than I have in months. Probably 3 wakings. I'm taking it throughout the day today, in response to levels of muscle pain, and I'll see how the sleep goes.
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  11. Shoesies

    Shoesies Senior Member

    heaps, good info. I have always thought that there could be adrenal issues due to some extreme adrenaline issues in childhood. Also, need to talk with Doc about not taking the metformin so late. Seems that might be causing the wakey-wakey with that article???
     
  12. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    I'm curious if you found Apotex trazodone. Trazodone is the only sleep med I can take without feeling drugged or like I'm on speed. Apotex was my go to but then Teva, who owned the recipe for the Apotex trazodone bought Pliva and could only use one Trazodone so you could no longer get Apotex except in 300 mg (my memory may not be quite right with the buy out but the result is the same).

    Up until a few nights ago I was taking Mutual brand with nice results. Then I started having tachycardia out of the blue. Now I'm struggling to find something else to take.

    I'm wondering if I switch to a different Trazodone generic if I will be able to take it without the tachycardia? I took some dramamine I had and feel drugged and I slept horribly. I'm waiting to get some benedryl since I had good luck with that to. Can't take benzos because I like them too much.

    I can put up with a lot but sleep deprivation is a deal breaker for me.

    Minks
     

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