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I would love some help for my wife - about to have mercury fillings removed !

Discussion in 'Addressing Biotoxin, Chemical & Food Sensitivities' started by rossoe, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. rossoe

    rossoe

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    Hi

    My wife has been very unwell since about Christmas 2008 not long after a flu vaccine, first diagnosed as Hypothyroidism - Hashimoto's, then we thought we were also dealing with Addisons on top - but all (NHS) tests for that came back ok. private saliva tests for Cortisol all came back very low. we have been slowly working with a nice holistic doctor at a supplement regime and carried out lot's of blood / urine / hair sample tests to look at heavy metal burden and mitochondrial function.

    She came up very sensitive to Aluminium & Nickel. and hair and blood tests showed lot's of mercury in her system, especially after provocation with DMSA. Mito function was extremely low with lot’s of oxidative damage going on, and low levels of Q10 and magnesium.

    My wife had to leave her job, give up her Masters in art therapy, and stop teaching dance all at once. her mind was ever so willing - her body thought otherwise.

    When the doctor found out she had a metal crown and a small amalgam filling he suggested we try to get them removed, we found a clinic called Munro Hall, who specialise in holistic metal free dentistry. my wife is due in on the 8th March to have all metal removed, filling will be replaced with polyceramic and crown will be completely removed and left empty for now.

    My question is one of detox, as the dentist seems very thorough in that they give patients a infusion via IV of High dose Vit C along with Glutathione and some other's I forget. on the day of surgery and for 2 days after at the clinic. then they provide oral supplements to be taken before & after.

    However my wife already takes a lot of supplements (mostly all Thorne manufacturer) organised through her holistic doctor. they include the following per day:

    Milk thistle .8ml
    Q10 - 300g
    B12 - 5000mcg
    Magnesium - 600mg + Mag body spray + Epsom bath salts
    Zinc - 30mg
    Vit E - 335mg
    B3 Niacin - 100mg
    Acetyl-L-Carnitine - 2000mg
    N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine - 500mg
    Curcumin - 2250mg
    Pro-Biotic - 1 per day (15 billion)
    Chlorella - few per day
    Vitamin D - 2000iu
    Omega 3 - 5ml
    Vit C - 5700mg
    Eve prim - 2000mg
    B5 - a few per month

    Multi vit - Six Capsules Contain:
    Vitamin A (12,500 IU from Mixed Carotenes and 2,500 IU as Palmitate) 15,000 IU.
    Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 850 mg.
    Vitamin D (as Vitamin D3) 1,000 IU.
    Vitamin E (as d-Alpha Tocopheryl) 400 IU.
    Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 40 mg.
    Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate) 11 mg.
    Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 30 mg as Niacin) 160 mg.
    Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg.
    Folate (500 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 500 mcg as 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate) 1,000 mcg.
    Vitamin B12 (225 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 225 mcg as Methylcobalamin) 450 mcg.
    Biotin 400 mcg.
    Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 413 mg.
    Calcium (as Calcium Aspartate) 300 mg.
    Iodine (as Potassium Iodide) 225 mcg.
    Magnesium (as Magnesium Aspartate) 285 mg.
    Zinc (as Zinc Picolinate) 15 mg.
    Selenium (as Selenium Picolinate) 200 mcg.
    Manganese (as Manganese Picolinate) 6 mg.
    Chromium (as Chromium Chelidamate Arginate) 200 mcg.
    Molybdenum (as Molybdenum Picolinate) 100 mcg.
    Potassium (as Potassium Aspartate) 90 mg.
    Choline Citrate 100 mg.
    Boron (as Boron Picolinate) 3 mg.
    Vanadium (as Vanadium Picolinate) 100 mcg.

    Additionally we have recently bought the following knowing she may need extra detox support (currently not taking these) :
    Selenium - 200mcg per tablet
    L-Methionine - 175mg per tablet
    L-Glutathione - 175mg per tablet
    Vitamin B Complex

    It may be of interest to note that she has not felt any improvement on any supplement during the whole 3 years, she is just gradually getting worse and worse. even when she tried T3 for thyroid and Hydrocortisone for Adrenals ! nothing.

    We are happy to go with the dentists IV infusions, but have mentioned that we would like to keep using the pills my wife is used to (Thorne), as her stomach seems very sensitive at the moment, and we don’t want to introduce possible unknown excipients in new pills.

    I wonder if someone could guide us as to what amounts of the above would be recommended before and after the detox period ? and what maybe should be avoided or introduced slowly ? An additional worry is that at the moment she seems to have taken a turn for the worse and is incredibly exhausted, by evening she is barely able to hold her head up. She is not quite bed bound but can do very little exercise without being knocked out for days.

    They intend to not only take out the filling and crown - but 2 wisdom teeth as well, I’m just hoping she can endure the treatment, as even getting to the clinic last time for a consultation wiped her out.

    Thank you for looking, I know it’s a lot of figures !

    Any help would be appreciated, also good to hear from people that have had dental treatment done when they were very poorly ?

    Ross
     
  2. LaurelW

    LaurelW Senior Member

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    Hi Ross,

    Did they say why they are taking out the wisdom teeth? That seems like a whole lot of dental work for a sick person to go through. And wisdom teeth don't need to come out unless there are major space issues in the mouth. Dentists are usually to o quick to get rid of them because they see them as dispensible.

    I don't know about the supplement issues, but for a person with CFS, the anesthetics they use, xylocaine with epinephrine, is hard on the body. It makes your heart race. The epinephrine is put in there to contract the blood vessels and make the anesthetic last longer, but it always wipes me out pretty badly. Last time I went I asked for Carbocaine, which doesn't have it, but they have to work fairly quickly since it doesn't last as long.

    If it were me, I'd feel real qualms about getting all that work done at once. I'd remove the metal, and if she really needs those wisdom teeth out, I'd get that done in a different session. My mom has CFS too, and we are always talking about the "knock-down-drag-out" we had at the dentist, because that's what it feels like.
     
  3. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi, i have to agree with Laural about the wisdoms, that just seems a step too far for a sick person as its quite a major procedure and leaves the body open to infection etc. I was advised to have mine out overe 20 years ago but didnt and they have never given me any problems. I would have thought that the holistic Doctor would be the best person to advise about the supplements etc (presuming they are a medical doctor)
    From what i gather the most important thing is to make sure that the dentist uses the correct safe procedure when removing the fillings so that little is left behind in the body.
    Good luck with this, i hope she sees some improvement from this. i would have also thought that if she only has one small amalgam filling then it cant be a massive problem re the mercury and the mercury could be coming from somewhere else. Possibly fish such as tuna or salmon?
     
  4. lampkld2

    lampkld2

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    Drop the Chlorella and anything that could chelate mercury. It will, is probably pulling it out of her almagams and into her body / brain.

    Look up cutler chelation, thats the best way to do things.
     
  5. LaurelW

    LaurelW Senior Member

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    So true, Justy. I know that amalgams produce mercury vapor when you chew on them, but just one shouldn't account for such high levels. The amount of mercury in fish these days is unbelievable, esp. those that eat other fish like tuna. I got my amalgams out because I had a whole mouth full of them and it was a major problem.
     
  6. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Ross.

    I'm wondenng if your wife takes the B12 as an oral supplement, or does she take it sublingually? It's important to take it sublingually, because the amount absorbed orally is relatively small, and if your wife has a partial methylation cycle block, which seems likely, it's necessary to get a lot of B12 into the cells to overcome the hijacking due to reactions with toxins in the absence of sufficient glutathione to protect the B12 during its intracellular metabolism.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  7. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Ross,

    I would suggest that you read http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showth...Methylb12-and-Methylfolate-Deficiencies/page3

    Glutathione could very well be the reason she gets worse and worse for 3 years. It ought to be clear that what is being done isn't working, and removing a crown that has nothing to do with mercury and 1 amalgam most likely won't do diddly.

    If you go to the page with the symptoms and you match up ALL her symptoms that are on the symptoms page and then a separate group of those that don't match up and we can get to the bottom of this. Removal of 2 wisdom teeth at the same time other work would not be a good idea and I doubt that the other work will do any good, especially with continuing to take the glutathione which quite possibly is making everything much worse. You can test the hypothesis and stop glutathione and precursors, take both kinds of 5 star active b12s, a sizable dose of Metafolin, L-carnitine fumarate and see about getting her healing. I would place my bet on ditching the dental work for now, discontinuing the glutathione and glutathione precursors and some adjustments of supplements.
     
  9. rossoe

    rossoe

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    Hello, thank you for your responses,

    We shall definitely consider dropping the 2 wisdom teeth extractions, as she does not appear to be in great shape for too big a procedure.

    My wife has stopped the Chlorella, she was taking up to 30 a day at one point but has tapered off slowly, and Fred she does not currently take Glutathione, we've only purchased it in preparation for any detox requirements. but she does take NAC which I understand is a precursor to Glutathione.

    she takes Jarrows B12 - 5000mcg sublingually, but it has never had any noticeable affect.

    If my wife did not have raised levels of mercury show up on her tests, we would definitely think twice before going through with any treatment, but whilst they are in her mouth, it will always remain a possible cause for at least some symptoms - and therefore we felt to get rid of them may at least rule out any further leaking into her body. We can then move onto dealing with other symptoms safe in the knowledge that there is no additional mercury exposure occurring. The clinic we have found seem extremely careful in the extraction process.

    The current amalgam is only small, however she did have quite a few in her mouth that were all replaced with white fillings long before any ME symptoms appeared. The crown is said to have an infection underneath, this is something Munro-Hall clinic specialise in - they feel crowns are often a risk for infection that can leak toxins into the body without much sign of pain. My wife's wisdom teeth are pointing sideways and have shifted other teeth around as they tend to do. she has been told to have them out by her previous dentist, but we have held off until recently, because of fears about the anaesthetic, Munro Hall reassured us on that front - but we shall be thinking hard about this over the next few days.

    As for other exposures to mercury, my wife stopped eating canned Tuna about 6 months ago, she used to eat approx 1-2 small cans a week, the only other fish we eat is Salmon, which typically has low levels of mercury.

    The Cutler protocol seems interesting, however the slightest disturbance to my wife's sleep would destroy her for days, and the idea of waking every 3-4 hours to take pills would fill her with horror.

    I was a little concerned to read this on wiki pages :
    Her holistic doctor is a fully registered Doctor in the UK. we hope that the amount of supplements my wife is on is not contributing to any of her severe symptoms.
     
  10. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Rossoe, i wish your wife all the best with her dental work and supplements. It sounds to me that you are both very well informed and working to address all angles. I sincerely hope she sees some improvement soon.
    All the best, Justy xx
     
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Rossoe,

    As long as your wife is taking glutathione there is considerably probability that she will just keep getting worse because it can put her in severe b12 deficiency and severe methylfolate deficiency. She could eat a whole bottle every day of the Jarrow and Metafolin and it won't overcome the glutathione until she stops taking it. I have seen any progress stopped for years by people taking glutathione.

    I'm editing to add that the amount of glutathione produced by the NAC would be limited by the amount of glutamine you have available in your body and might or might not produce folate/mb12/adb12 disabling quantities. Some people with whom I have corresponded appear to have had some difficulty but that is not as clear-cut as with both supplements. As your wife has a whole list of what appear to be these deficienciencies and keeps getting worse, something is wrong, and re-examining your assumptions and choices made on those assumptions is often a good place. Maybe there is a 10% or other unknown probability that the NAC is the problem. However, for those people for whom it is a problem there can be a complete blockage of the active b12/folate and worsening of symptoms over time might be accounted for by that. Everything we do is only a probability.

    When I go look for it, "NAC detox reaction" very similar to "glutathione detox reaction" appears almost as often when doing a search. ANd this person http://www.prohealth.com/me-cfs/blog/boardDetail.cfm?id=1399717 says that they have the same "detox" reaction with NAC alone as with any form of glutathione or precursors.

    Good luck.
     
  12. willow

    willow Senior Member

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    Hi Ross,

    Well there's a co-incidence I'll be having 2 tiny amalgams removed also on 8th March. It's taken me 2 years to get to the stage where my holistic dentist thinks I'm strong enough. We're waiting and seeing how it goes before deciding whether to embark on the removal of the remainder. I've been trialling different dental materials (the dentist supplied samples for me to wedge between my gum and lip/ to suck on).

    As for supplements I'm very supplement sensitive so although my dentist has her preferred protocol she's very relaxed that once I've considered her suggestions that I do what I consider to be best for myself.

    I'm sad that your wife hasn't made progress on her 3 yrs of supplement regime and it sounds as if you're wondering if some of them might be contributing to her deterioration? Is the doctor also concerned and considering re-assessing? Personally I've had a rough time with finding the right supplements and now use very few. I wish I'd rationalised sooner. But OTOH some others do well on lots of them. No easy solution, gut feel guided me.

    Good Luck to you both for the 8th. I hope it helps improve your wife's health.
     
  13. pken

    pken

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    Hi Ross,

    I'm going to quote and comment below which I hope is helpful. I'll add that I've not seen any convincing evidence that hair analysis is particularly useful. I'm willing to be corrected of course. While I would probably trust a holistic doctor more than a regular one some of them do have fairly loony ideas about things (just like the regular docs). If whatever is being suggested works, however loony, that's fine but if it keeps on not working it's time to look elsewhere. Easier said than done I know, and I think I've jumped from quite a few frying pans into fires in my time.

    I'm relatively new here and I have a feeling I'll get a reputation for being the "copper-kid" because I think I've mentioned it on 3 posts already - but I promise I'm not on commission from any copper company. Copper regularly gets a bad reputation in the alternative health community (and sometimes rightly so because toxicity is possible) but when people take large doses of substances that wash out heavy metals they can also cause copper deficiency. Since copper is vital to health this can cause a whole set of problems that can be confused with "detoxing" or "herxing" or the "it must be working because I feel so bad". Your wife doesn't seem to have any copper in her supplements, but does take things that absolutely will deplete copper in her body (vitamin c and zinc). If she eats a lot of copper containing foods like liver and shellfish she may be OK. If not, the vitamin C and zinc could be doing serious damage.

     
  14. powertool4

    powertool4

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    I think especially because the mercury test showed up high, it is reason enough to pursue it. Obviously having spent no time with her or knowing much about her situation, no one can really say it's one particular thing. But mercury does not belong in the body PERIOD. and if the levels are high for her, it may be worth a shot to get them out. Please remember the golden rule to chelation is SLOW and LOW. Fast and high doses can cause lots of trouble. I would avoid IV PUSH and Injections of anything. IV slow drip would be best and oral coming in second if her Gi tract can handle it.
     
  15. rossoe

    rossoe

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    Thank you for all your thoughts on dental work, and thanks pken for that detailed run through of the supplements my wife is on. She went ahead with the work on 4 teeth, 2 wisdoms pulled, Crown pulled + amalgam removed and replaced with polyceramic.

    She had slightly improved from a bit of a relapse just prior to surgery, so she felt like getting it over and done with.

    Interestingly the dentist found horrible infection under the crown, which may have been their 10 years seeping poison into her body. their was no outward local sign of infection or pain in that tooth ! but I guess as they are dead teeth it's hard to tell. they also said the 2 wisdom teeth had signs of infection.

    Munro clinic seemed very professional, the Vit C drip was inserted before the surgery even began, and stayed in through the whole procedure.

    My wife has felt pretty rough for the last 7 days, but the pain in the jaw is subsiding, the overriding pain is in her head chest and severe exhaustion. she went into all this at level of 20 on the Bell CFS severity scale. we hope to not go any lower !
     
  16. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks Rossoe for letting us know how your wife is, i hope the pain continues to subside. Very interesting about the infection under the crown. There has been a thread on here about a man whos CFS turned out to be caused by a cavitation, once he had the infection dealt with he completely recovered. Im not saying this is the case for your wife, but perhaps treating the infection will help her to heal a little?
    Please send her my best wishes. Justy.
     
  17. Emmanuelle

    Emmanuelle

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    I'm a bit "late" with this, but want to weigh in ... I had several filling removed about 10 years ago. I was told that cilantro oil (from health food store) helps get mercury out of the brain. Also, I didn't feel much better until I took "Chemet"-- I think that's a "brand" name; don't remember the generic, or what it might be called in UK. But it's what they use for lead poisoning, particularly in children. It helped a lot. I don't know if current wisdom has anything bad to say about it ... but I felt better after it, not worse. But I wasn't super sick then-- "just" fatigued and brain fogged.

    I have since learned that porcelain crowns often have amalgam in them ... Grrrrr ! which might explain in part why I'm sick again, much worse this time. Will have the crowns replaced when I can afford it.

    I wish your wife all the best! I hope this does the trick for her. It's so nice that you are writing on her behalf ... :)
     
  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Emmanuelle,

    I have since learned that porcelain crowns often have amalgam in them ... Grrrrr ! which might explain in part why I'm sick again, much worse this time. Will have the crowns replaced when I can afford it.

    I don't know what you are talking about. I spent 20+ years writing group health plan/dental plan software and not a single crown has amalgam in it as part of it. An "amalgam" is a MIXTURE of mercury and other metal, usually silver, that is soft and pliable at first and able to be pushed into odd shaped holes and it melds together literally being an amalgam of two materials. The substrate of a porcelain over metal substrate crown comes in three varieties, non-precious, semi-precious and precious which refers to how much gold is in the mix. None of them have any mercury in them at all. It is made by hot casting the molten metal alloy into a mold sculpted by the lab technician. It is very dangerous to heat up mercury to these molten metal temperatures and would likely kill the lab persons if it were used. The remains of the tooth under the crown could have the remains of an amalgam filling embedded in it. The main problem is typically infection remaining active in the roots if a less than perfect root canal was done.

    I would advise you that you need to come up with a different hypothesis for you illness as you are barking up the wrong tree thinking that a crown contains mercury in the form of a mercury amalgam.
     
  19. powertool4

    powertool4

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    Perhaps he was thinking that the dentist left the amalgam filling and put a crown over it? I have heard of that on many occasions.
     
  20. Rosanne

    Rosanne

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    I agree with lampkid, but I do think that even after remove of amalgum if she continues on this path she may be too ill
    to chelate. I know I found I removed all me amalgum 6-9 months ago and I still can not get my body in shape for chelation.
     

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