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" I Thought It Was a Typo…" Dr. Zaher Nahle on funding for ME

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
The disability insurers benefit from "CFS is mental illness". Insurer hatchet men advised DWP, NIH, and CDC that we have a mental illness. Those agencies adopted that policy. That policy is still in effect. These are facts, not theory or speculation.
This is correct but I recently became aware that the reason they treat mental illness differently is nobody can prove you have one. It applies to all unprovable diseases. So long as there is no recognized validated diagnostic test, its subject to insurance disapproval. This is in part bungling as the primary symptom inducing physiology of ME is established and testable.
 

Nielk

Senior Member
Messages
6,970
This is correct but I recently became aware that the reason they treat mental illness differently is nobody can prove you have one. It applies to all unprovable diseases. So long as there is no recognized validated diagnostic test, its subject to insurance disapproval. This is in part bungling as the primary symptom inducing physiology of ME is established and testable.
In the US, private disability insurers only cover two years of disability that is psychological as opposed to covering biological diseases until social security kicks in. That is a huge difference.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
In the US, private disability insurers only cover two years of disability that is psychological as opposed to covering biological diseases until social security kicks in. That is a huge difference.
... and no psychological disorder is provable, although Alzheimers (which is really neuro) is coming close. There are also some quasi psych disorders, which they claim but have no right to, such as resulting from genetic issues, that are provable.
 

jimells

Senior Member
Messages
2,009
Location
northern Maine
... I recently became aware that the reason they treat mental illness differently is nobody can prove you have one. It applies to all unprovable diseases. So long as there is no recognized validated diagnostic test, its subject to insurance disapproval.

So the real difference between "mental illness" and "physiological illness" is the acceptance of a test? i wonder if that is a disprovable hypothesis...
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
So the real difference between "mental illness" and "physiological illness" is the acceptance of a test? i wonder if that is a disprovable hypothesis...

Doh, I need to get esoteric here.

Probably that could be seen as an operational definition and so would be disprovable in the sense that it could be tested and if wrong it could be found out to be wrong.

If we can find another reason that would disprove it, at least in part. Of course though some insiders consider it this way, it does not mean there are not other reasons - including many of the popular ones. I also knew quite a few in the insurance industry (but only sales people) at one point ... some of them were less than exemplary individuals.

However the issue is not mental versus physical, but unprovable versus provable, with mental illness being currently unprovable. If they had objective and highly validated tests for mental illness I think insurance would accept it. However such a finding would probably make it a brain or genetic or other physical disease.

I still hold that mind probably does not exist, so the term "mental" is problematic. Mind was, and largely still is, a superstitious description of part of brain function.

An issue with mental illness is not there is nothing wrong with these people either, though I am sure malingering and fraud are considered by insurance industry people, but that its a false diagnosis. Why should they pay for bogus medical diagnosis and anything that follows from that?

Perhaps the most important reason is this. If anyone can objectively prove their "mental" illness then any justification for treating "mental" illness different from physical illness, under insurance provisions, would be under serious challenge. It might result in changes under law, or large class action lawsuits. It might result in some companies changing their policy and winning over clients, which would force a change within the industry over time.

PS Which raises the question as to whether this is dishonest behaviour, as instead of simply saying they cannot trust the diagnosis (and look at how hard they challenge other diagnoses, especially things like whiplash), they shift focus with these unprovable disorders (that may be physical) and call it mental. The insurance industry is sometimes embracing and supporting biopsychosocial views that "justify" these kinds of claims. The interaction between insurance giants and politics of social change in the UK is well documented.
 
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jimells

Senior Member
Messages
2,009
Location
northern Maine
I still hold that mind probably does not exist, so the term "mental" is problematic. Mind was, and largely still is, a superstitious description of part of brain function.

Problematic indeed. I think that eventually the term "mental illness" will be as anachronistic as "hysteria" (well, it's mostly anachronistic). In my "mind", I tend to think of these illnesses as either a biochemical malfunction, e.g. bipolar disorder, or behavioral, as in unhelpful emotional reactions and decisions with adverse effects, which I guess is what psychologists are supposed to deal with.

I realize that is simplistic since behavior and biochemistry affect each other, but it doesn't leave much room for Freud and psychiatry,