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A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
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I think I got over-methylated?!!! Need help!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Gingergrrl, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I have the bottle! It says 800 mcgs. But if you want to check it look here and click on supplement facts below. That was way too high a dose for me when I started. I tried 400 mcgs and 1 mg of B12 and was very sick for 2 weeks!

    Metagenics is one of the best brands.

    Sushi
     
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  2. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    @Sushi, I wasn't doubting you in any way and if you think Metagenics is one of the best brands, that is more than good enough for me! My only question was that on the Amazon link, I couldn't find the dose but on the Vitacost link you just sent, it is all there.

    I will buy that one and that way I can cut it into halves or quarters and start really low. I tolerated the 625 mcg for two weeks before I increased to 1250 mcg (which I also tolerated but now know was way too high.) It was the 2500 mcg (2.5 mg) that I only took once that did me in. So it seems like if I get the Metagenics dose it should be okay?
     
  3. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl
    My specialist recommended 400 mcg 5-MTF for us. We started there with no problems, but not everyone can. We take this one. It is a capsule form, so you could break it open and take a smaller dose.
     
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  4. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    @SOC Thank you and you guys are awesome for all the feedback!!! I ended up just buying the FolaPro that Sushi recommended and will cut it in half and start with 400 mcg. I think that will be okay for me but if not, I have the Niacin on hand! I am also waiting two weeks per my doctor until trying it again.

    If I take the 400 mcg for a few weeks and am okay, can I increase it again? Or should I stay at 400 mcg for a month or several months? This is the point I am still confused about?!!

    ETA: @SOC, also what dose of methyl B12 shot do you take?
     
  5. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I was teasing when I said I had the bottle, no worries.:lol: I saw that you couldn't read the dose on the Amazon link.

    The problem was likely the cumulative effect on methylation not that one dose.

    There is no telling (without experimenting) what dose you will tolerate but, in my experience, starting low and moving up works much better than the other direction. For me, even 200 mcgs was too much at first. Hard to remember so far back, but I think I stayed at each dose for a couple of weeks to see what the cumulative effect would be.

    I used to run a forum on ME/CFS and Methylation so I read a lot of peoples' stories and the tolerance levels varied hugely. But for me, within about 6 - 9 months I was up to the recommended dose of 2 mgs B12 and 800 mcgs of 5 MTHF.

    Sushi
     
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  6. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I understand that dividing capsules by hand is very tedious and not for everyone. I just eyeball what 1/2 is, and feel that is sufficient.

    I bet you could get a compounding pharmacy to do it, as long as they could get hold of methylfolate. I would stay on whatever starting dose you choose for 6-8 weeks before trying to increase. That's known as "the honeymoon period" before methylation starts cranking at full speed.

    This is why I show the "runaway train" cartoon sequence in my Methylation Made Easy videos, to try and get this point across. The runaway methylation train would be going for a very long time if Superman (aka Niacin) were not there to stop it.

    B12 shots without folate - I still wouldn't take that much because it's going to be all out balance with the amount of folate you might be getting from your diet, and cause a methyl trapping situation (i.e. stopping methylation, which is not what you want).

    5mg B12 with 800mcg folate - again, probably out of balance. If you were taking 800mcg folate, I would suggest taking 800-3200mcg of B12.

    Again, I don't suggest starting with amounts that high.
     
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  7. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    I don't do shots. My doc recommends a sublingual, 1 mg. Right now we're doing hydroxy B12, not methyl. I forget why. :whistle: Something to do with our genetics, I think.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
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  8. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    @SOC Does Sublingual dose totally differently than the shots? My shots were 5 mg/ml but your sublingual is 1000 mg?
    I am still trying to figure this all out! Luckily I have two weeks and plenty of time to sort out all the feedback.

    @caledonia Thank you and I will wait the full 6-8 wks (or more) before upping the dose. I plan to do both the B-12 shots & M-Folate, but had asked b/c I was curious how the B-12 shots would be dosed alone. Also, just to clarify, when you said 800 mcg M-folate should correlate to 800-3200 mcg of B-12, would that be equal to 3.2 mg in B-12 shot (approx?) Also, if I start the M-folate at 400 mcg (which is actually what I am thinking) what amount would I take of the B-12 shot? Obviously math is not my strong point :D.
     
  9. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    I know nothing about injectable dosing, but I can tell you that I mistyped our dose -- I blame brain fog. :p We take 1000 mcg which equal 1 mg. I'll fix my post above.

    If you are injecting 1 ml at 5mg/ml, then you are taking 5X the dose we are. If you are injecting less than 1 ml, our doses may be closer. We have taken much higher doses of mixed types (methyl, debencozide, cyan, and hydroxy) in the past, to no particular advantage. That's just us, though. Other people have good luck with high dose B12.
     
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  10. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    In my experience more is absorbed through an injection than sublingual--I've taken it both ways.

    Sushi
     
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  11. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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  12. caledonia

    caledonia

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    That is correct. 800 - 3200 mcg would be the same as 0.8 - 3.2 mg.

    So if you started with 400mcg then three times higher would be 1200mcg (1.2mg) and five times higher would 2000mcg ( 2 mg) .
     
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  13. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    @SOC, If you can remember why, I am curious why your doctor felt hydroxy B12 was better for you (from a genetic perspective.) My Dr said to take Methyl-B but this was before I had done the 23andMe or knew my genetic results and would love to compare the info. Not as medical advice, just from an educational perspective and I am going to continue with the Methyl B-12 shots for now once I resume the whole thing in 2 wks.
     
  14. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    Thank you and that is very helpful and I wrote it in my notebook. I ordered the FolaPro 800 mcg recommended by Sushi so when it arrives and I can re-start in 2 wks, I am going to correlate all the doses to start low & slow like you have taught. I cannot risk another over-methylation debacle!
     
  15. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    I have to admit that I don't remember why. :oops: Maybe one of our methylation gurus would have an idea. Hydroxy has always seemed (in a very small way) to be the best form for me, so I didn't question the doc extensively.
     
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  16. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    If you scroll down, someone asked that question and the response was 800 mcg.
     
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  17. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    I have a follow-up question for @caledonia or @Critterina re: the methylation ratio.

    You had said a good ratio, for when I re-start the methylation supps in two wks is 4x the B-12 to methyl folate.

    My question is that I assume this ratio is for daily dosing of each? In my case, my Dr wants me to do the B-12 shots 3x/wk and folate every day.

    Therefore, would I increase the amount of B-12 per shot to keep with the ratio? I ordered FolaPro 800 mcg recommended by @Sushi and will start with a quarter tab of 200 mcg. With that ratio, it should be around 1 mg shot of B-12 but since only 3x/wk, should I do more like 3 mg per shot?

    Once I can switch to daily sublingual B-12, it will be a lot easier! Thank you for any feedback on this issue and I really appreciate it!
     
  18. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl I can't comment directly on this ratio. Personally, I've stabilized at 15mg Mfolate: 20mg MB12.

    But I chimed in here to strongly suggest you learn self-testing. Your body will really help you understand what you need as you continue to Go Slow! ;)

    Caledonia's pick, which is the simplest I've seen:

    Self-testing http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex59wHLk3Q0
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  19. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    @ahmo I watched the video but didn't follow the concept or what it had to do with methylation or dosing amounts. Is there a second one or did I just not get it?!!!
     
  20. caledonia

    caledonia

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    You could add up the weekly total of methylfolate and work it that way.

    200 mcg of methylfolate per day x 7 days is 1400mcg of methylfolate per week. 1400 x 3 = 4200 1400 x 5 = 7000

    So that would be 4200 to 7000 mcg of B12 per week. Divided by 3 days = 1400 to 2333mcg of B12 on each of the three days.
     

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