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I strongly need help!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by girlfromeurope, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    Hi I think this is the last thread I will make. I'm really lost at what to do.

    I have deficiencies of vitamin b2,b6, zinc and magnesium.
    My symptoms don't approve when I take supplements.
    The problem is b6 depends on zinc,magnesium and b2 for absorption.
    b2 depends on zinc and magnesium on absorption
    zinc depends on b6 on absorption
    magnesium depends on b6 on absorption.

    Its a circle where I can't get out.
    If I take zinc my b2 and b6 deficiency symptoms worsen and my depression gets way worse.
    Taking b2 and b6 in active forms doesn't help either.
    In the beginning when I took small doses of b6 I always felt a bit better.
    And now suddenly it made my depression a lot worse and I got burning sensations in my hands and arms.

    I'm sorry I don't want to bother anyone with my symptoms I just feel very suicidal right now. There is really no way out I've tried everything..
     
  2. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Hi girl

    Don't despair, there is an answer.

    I have been the same, trying all different nutrients being deficient in many things, and after some improvement, ended up unchanged, the last being d3 which l knew l needed because of bone pain, but crashed after adding it. I can't take methylation supplements either and spent a fortune recently on probiotics all of which ended up making me worse with increased histamine.

    I have come to the conclusion that my body is too messed up to take supplements so what l am doing now, is to take super foods like chia seeds, dried barley grass, camu camu, raw honey, dried shiitake mushrooms, raw carob, dried pollen and whatever else l can find, and just mix with water and swill it down. This is on top of a low carb organic diet.

    So far so good. My body prefers real food l am finding.
     
    girlfromeurope likes this.
  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    @girlfromeurope - I'm sorry to hear that you are having a tough time right now. Are you on antidepressants? You really need to phone either a family member or a friend, or get yourself to the hospital right away for some help.

    I think sometimes too much emphasis is put on vitamins and supplements around here and some of the dosages being taken are probably not safe or put other vitamins and minerals out of whack . Have you had tests confirming that you are deficient? or are you assuming that you are? Are you having testing done to confirm that zinc lowers your B2 and B6 levels? or again are you just assuming that is what is happening? I wonder sometimes if things aren't being attributed to vitamins and supplements when in fact there is no connection and it is just coincidence that someone is feeling a particular way that day.

    I hope that you get some help and are feeling a bit better soon. :hug:
     
  4. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    No I'm going to the doctor tomorrow for antidepressant. Some things I got tested for and some I now because of experiences.
    thank you for your reply!
     
  5. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    There are some obvious things that spring to mind here:
    take magnesium and zinc at different times, each can prevent the other absorbing
    were your Mg & Zinc tested in serum, or in cells?
    it mat be the particular type of of Mg or Zinc that's not for you.
    you may need sub-lingual froms.

    if you are feeling suicidal, you may need normal anti-depressants in the short term
     
  6. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    I tried magnesium spray and all types of zinc but it doesn't help.
    I really want to do a spectracell test to know what my deficiencies are but I don't think they have somehing like that were I live.
     
  7. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Genova do an 'intracellular' test, are they in Belgium?
     
  8. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    Hi @girlfromeurope,

    Sorry to hear you are feeling so down. Having looked at some of you other posts IMO this is your main problem.

    With low aldosterone you are going to have trouble with the methylation protocol particularly if you are taking increasing doses of methylfolate and B12.

    Once the methylation cycle starts up the potassium level will drop and supplemental potassium is necessary. This means that the potassium level is usually going up and down more than normal to prevent low potassium. With low aldosterone there also has to be constant adjustment to sodium levels to prevent unbalancing the sodium/potassium ratio and keep the adrenals stable.

    This constant need to keep supplementing potassium also unbalances the thyroid gland. Increases in potassium tend to slow down the thyroid and conversely lowering potassium will speed the thyroid up.

    This means the 2 main glands controlling energy are constantly flucuating and can never really be in a stable relationship with one another.

    You need IMO to get the adrenals sorted out first. Im not quite sure why you are not on florinef for the low aldosterone. Getting adequate sodium with florinef would help keep the adrenals less subject to being unbalanced by potassium variations.

    At the present going into higher potassium levels with inadequate sodium will cause an inverted Na/K ratio and make you feel suicidal. It can also cause acute stress on the liver,kidneys and heart.
    I think you also need to stop methylation until you can get it monitored by a doctor.

    My advice is to go to a doctor who can treat your adrenal burnout and low aldosterone first and get you a hair mineral test to find out if your mineral levels are unbalanced as well.

    Hope you will feel better soon,
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  9. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Talk with the doctor tomorrow. He may be willing to run some tests on your zinc, mg, b2 and b6 levels. I have a lot of problems with zinc and B vitamins also. They tend to cause neuropathic symptoms, if I get too much. I don't absorb Mg very well.

    I found that getting nutrients through food helps me much more than supplements. I have used the Wahl diet as a start. I can't eat as much as she recommends, but I get a lot through a smoothie each morning in the blender. Dark leafy greens, blueberries and good fats (avocados, coconut oil, nuts, etc.) tend to help me. I take very little in supplements.

    Hope you get help tomorrow from your doctor. You may meed to address the depression first before overloading yourself with other tasks. I hope you have some support there from family/friends.
     
  10. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    I really like liverock's advice. Getting my adrenals in order was a big part of my recovery, and it took a long (depressingly long) time. But it did get better.

    Maybe you should quit all methylation supps for now. Drastically reduce quit B6. I couldn't take P5P at all until I was able to tolerate methylfolate, B12, etc.

    Radically increase vitamin C. If you can make or buy liposomal vitamin C, get some of that. This is my number 1 recommendation since I don't know if you've tried it yet. when I started liposomal vitamin C I experienced a very noticeable boost in energy and mood. Never noticed anything like it taking other forms of vitamin C. I think it was because it helped my adrenals. Adrenals need lots of vitamin C and liposomal is the most bioavailable, potent form.

    Increase salt. Don't increase potassium (because of the aldosterone issues).

    Adrenergize by Enzymatic Therapy is a very good adrenal glandular. If you haven't tried that and can get it where you are, give it a whirl. It's pretty cheap and quite effective.

    Anti-depressants messed me up pretty bad, but they *can* provide short-term relief and at least get you to where you don't want to hurt yourself. You must do what you feel is best for you.

    But if you want to stick with supplements before trying the anti-depressants, try salt and C and some adrenal glandulars or a few weeks first. See how you do. It will definitely be healthier.

    Good luck. It will get better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
    BadBadBear and girlfromeurope like this.
  11. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    what is genova?
     
  12. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    I agree re the side effects of the anti-depressants - I was misdiagnosed with depression and had awful trouble on them long-term.

    If feeling suicidal, they are worth the problems though. Once my mood lifted, I had to take them every other day (to avoid side effects) until I got to the bottom of my problems.
     
    whodathunkit likes this.
  13. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Genova Diagnostics is a laboratory that does a lot of nutritional tests. The USA site is gdx.net, I know the work in the UK, not sure about Europe. The intra-cellular tests are much better for minerals.
     
    girlfromeurope likes this.
  14. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    @Freddd can you help with this stuff?
     
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Girlfromeurope,

    This sure does sound like it's a balance thing, induced deficiency(s) or something. Let's look at some more dependencies. MeCbl acts more like a catalyst in transferring CH4, ending up exactly as it starts out. It needs magnesium or it essentially becomes non active. AdoCbl depends upon zinc, MeCbl and methylfolate depend on b6 and b2 I'm sure pops up several places. Any one of these so low that it impairs the Deadlock Quartet and that can make for severe depression and worsening of many of the FMS/CFS symptoms. Depression is one of those things made worse by lack of about everything mentioned including zinc, b6 and too much or too little b2.

    Can you describe in detail please the burning in your hands and arms. How high up the arms? A prickling heat? Any other increase in what symptoms?


    I've found that when things get out of control my best strategy is to fall back to set of basics that worked and retitrate for balance starting with the basics and MeCbl, AdoCbl and methylfolate, holding off at least a day on the LCF unless there is no startup. If it is a CNS based deficiency, which is very common in CFS/FMS and the body is ok in its balance a significantly larger MeCbl dose may need to be tried to get into the CSF. Remember, one of the things making all this complicated are all these undefined (noticed but not described in detail or by functionality) by research, triage levels. I had MeCbl relieve life long depression in 60 minutes the first time I took it and had responsive fluctuations as other nutrients also made their contributions. I started with the most limiting factor and then worked my way through the next 7 most limiting factors, each in order after the MeCbl.
     
    taniaaust1 and Leopardtail like this.
  16. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    Hi freddd thanks for your reply.
    Well, I started doing the methylation protocol and my symptoms approved. I got the low potassium so that's a sign it was working. But I think I depleted myself of already low zinc, magnesium, b2 and b6.

    The b12 suddenly stopped working, no low potassium anymore, no improvement. But then I got sore throat burning eyes(b2) and a magnesium deficiency that doesn't improve, pms ,depression,..(b6)
    I've read several times you need zinc and magnesium for b vitamins to work and I'm also deficient in those.
    b6 always helped a little bit but now It suddenly makes me worse.
    I get a burning sensation in hand palms and sometimes in arms.
    Taking zinc and magnesium doesn't help, zinc makes my b6 symptoms even worse.
    thank you!
     
  17. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    could you give us the doses please?
    are you taking them sublingual, or in swallowed tablets?
     
  18. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    I tried different doses. I always took about 5 mg p5p(b6)but now I'm taking 50 mg(tried sublingual today)
    I now take 25 mg of b2, sublingual.
    strangely enough my b2 deficiency symptoms get worse too if I take b2.
     
  19. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    Hey there, @girlfromeurope - I don't know much about methylation, but I do know about hope. I, too, have been without hope while fighting this disease, and it's a dark place to be.

    Please remember that research is finally catching up to all this stuff we suffer. We are going to being heard. You are NOT crazy, you are sick!!! Please fight a little longer - it'd be pure tragedy to stop fighting right before help arrives.

    You are valuable, and when (!) a help comes, your experiences will make you a more valuable human than those who never faced this crap. Hang in there and fight a little longer. It'll be worth it.
     
  20. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    How about the doses of B12? B9? Zinc? Magnesium? Potassium?
     

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