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I need some help regarding B12 self injections

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by PDPJ, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Curry,

    The 5mg Jarrow sublingual when held for that 45-120 minutes under the upper lip results in the absorption of 750-1250mcg, fully equivalent to a 1mg injection of mb12 at a far lower cost and with a much greater reliability. The Jarrow and Enzymatic Therapy sublingual b12s have neurological qualities that I have never seen exceeded by any injectable and at best equaled by some. If you have performed the titration I have defined elsewhere and then when equilibrium has been reached tried a 50mg single dose sublingual mb12, and it has an effect on the central nervous system, then, because of quantity needed I would say that injections of at least 7.5mg at least once a day is justified. Otherwise my opinion is that injecting is not worth the trouble. I inject 30mg daily as 3 doses of 10mg and that is the amount by titration I need to maintain and even improve neurological functioning in my already damaged nervous system. Most people top out on healing at perhaps 2-4mg in serum per day, as does my body. More then makes do difference until one hits the threshold for CNS diffusion IF they have trouble getting cobalamin into the CSF, and this applies separately to adenosylb12 and methylb12. I need both in the CNS and have worked out how to do the adenosylb12 sublinguially and ride into the CNS/CSF with a mb12 injection. That way I take 18mg of adb12 once a week starting 1-2 hours after an mb12 injection.

    If you have not done the titration and if you get a good batch of injectable mb12 and you just start with an injection of almost any size you may find the onset to be overwhelming. Many folks take several months to complete the titration up to a level where they can test if an injection would help and where they would not be overwhelmed with it.


    The injectable mb12 is generally a prescription item. It is made up by compounding pharmacies and the quality is widely variable for some controllable reasons and some that can't be controlled.
     
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jah,

    Have any of you injectors actually noticed a benefit from the b12 injections

    Let me put it this way. If I don't have 3 injections of 10mg methylb12 each day, but only two, my feet get more numb. If I take only one such injection per day the equilibrium is with my feet mostly numb, loss of motor contriol over my toes but retaining motor control of my legs and feet. With no injections my feet get worse each day going to dead numb in a month and loss of position sense and motor control in another month. In 6 months I would be in a wheelchair wearing diapers, Dr Jeckle would be gone and Mr Hyde present in his place (personality and mood changes, cognitive changes and fading memory ability). I would rather die fast than die that way. I've already been most of the way down that path and it was lousy to watch my life disappear day by day.
     
  3. curry

    curry Senior Member

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    Ok, thank you for the answer. :Retro smile:
    I will give then those highly praised Jarrow lozenges a go.

    May I also ask, what are those 'Enzymatic Therapy sublingual b12s'?
    (I skimmed through your posts and googled, but can't make sense of what you mean.)
     
  4. kat0465

    kat0465 Senior Member

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    question for fredd,
    dont mean to bust in on the thread, but it's about b12. my dr. put me on a shot a week of, b12,inositol,methione(spelling?) and some amino acids.
    on my fifth shot, i had an amazing 4 hours of feeling almost normal.my chest didnt bother me, i didnt feel like i was struggling just to breath, pain was less, and just had an overall sense of wellbeing.
    Im pretty sure i have the methylation cycle block, so maybe thats why i felt some better??? just wondering your take on it.
    Thanks
    Kat
     
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Curry,

    Enzymatic Therapy (http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-B12-Infusion-30-Chewable-Tablets/2119?at=0) methylb12 is the other brand that tested as 5 stars. It gave unconditionally excellent results for all 5 testers. It is slightly different from the Jarrow methylb12. They are both excellent and they both offer slightly different responses neurologically. I think that this is due to inherent differences between the b12 crystal they start with. I think a person needs to try both. During my period of most rapid healing and massive healing I was taking both brands every day trying to squeeze the most results possible out of them. It is lower acid than the Jarrow and so may not irritate the tissues in the mouth in the same way some people have occur with the Jarrow. Even though the nominal dose is 1/5 the size of the 5mg Jarrow, it was far superior to all other brands of any dose, as was also the Jarrow 1mg. Size isn't everything. Again, long contact with tissues is critical. Good luck.

    As far as expense goes, while I spend a couple of hundred each month on all my various supplements, my pharmacy bill has come done from a peak of about $1500/month to about $100 per month now becasue of all the meds I was able to discontinue or reduce.
     
  6. curry

    curry Senior Member

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    Thank you again, Freddd. :thumbsup:
     
  7. susan

    susan Senior Member

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    I did the Metametrix test and my Dr made me a complex with methyl B12 400mcg folinic acid 800mcg plus co factors selenium, chromium, magnesium maganese vitamin C
    I am so ill right now and cant take anything orally........I have chronic belching and nausea and think I am toxic. I was doing well until I took a drug in March. I have taken mths to recover and then suddenly go downhill again for no reason.....increased toxic feeling. I am thinking I should take the methyl B12 by itself by injection. i cant see the Doc as he has cancer and there is no one knowledgeable for me to talk with.

    I have no idea how much B12 to inject and how often....if my dose orally is only 400mcg I imagine it is not much. Where can you buy a B12 cream. I need to bypass the liver as much as possible.... The Doc thinks the nausea and belching are related to the methylation depeletion. I did improve in 2mths that I did the protocol but was still nauseous.
     
  8. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    methyl b12, followed by nausea, could be toxins being mobilised.
    have you tried binders and chelators? charcoal, alginate and modified pectin, chitosan, plus whatever chelator u feel safe with, edta. etc..
    If that works, that would tell you something.
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Susan,

    have chronic belching and nausea

    That is most likely b12 deficiency caused. The lack of mb12 causing inflamation and reduced function of the digestive system. I had chronic nauesa and vomitted daily for several years and had compazine suppositories for it's control for years of deficiencies. At first, these symptoms can in fact intensify as the cells start reproducing and the neurology controling the stomach first starts coming back.

    400mcg of mb12 provides the same amount of methyl groups for donation as 125mcg of SAM-e. Remember, SAM-e is considered to be the universal methylator and mg for mg it provides more than 3 times as much as methylb12. The amount of detox provide by 400mcg of mb12 is minute. The amount of b12 startup symptoms as things start happening is huge from the same amount.

    The Jarrow and Enzymatic sublingual mb12 and Country Life adb12 don't put any strain on the liver and are already the active forms. Unless you have a need for large doses (7.5mg or more into serum) to penetrate the cerebral spinal fluid, methylb12 injections are far less relaible than these two brands of sublingual mb12. Just listening to people's effects from injections and my own 5 years of experience with the same convince me that most compounding pharmacies expose the mb12 to so much light it is nearly useless as mb12. I would estimate that the 2 5 star brands of mb12 sublinguals mentioned are, at the same dose 10 times as likely to produce the desired results. I used to think that mb12 injections would be the holy grail of mb12 but it took me 4 years (and $20,000) to debug the problems to get it up to the same reliability as the sublinguals.
     
  10. susan

    susan Senior Member

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    Fredd,
    thanks so much for this info. For the last 5 days I have been so ill and today woke feeling better. It is strange that when I feel deathly I dont belch much......soooo sleepy and nauseous and a vile feeling. Now today I woke feeling better but I have belched all day non stop. This gas must be formed from something. I really think this is the bodys way of getting rid of the toxins.
    I have those tablets you recommended in my cupboard and did a stop start with them before I found this wonderful Dr. I take TMG every day.....the only tablet orally.

    When I introduce something new into my body it take a few wks as I have to break it into small parts. My DOCS tablets have too much stuff in them right now to do that. If I can tolerate TMG I might be able to tolerate SAMe being of the same kind of family would you say? The liver might recognize it and not resist with increased nausea.. I took GSH for 6 mths with just more bad nausea and belching. Does folinic acid have any start up symptoms on the liver?
     
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Susan,

    The only multi anything I take is a multimineral because when you take those formulas with 50 things you don't know what is helping or hindering. And lurking inside those things can be various precursors to glutathione for example which can induce sudden methylfolate deficiency and mb12/adb12 deficiencies over a longer period. Are you taking Metafolin? That combined with the methylb12 decreased hypersensitivity for me and others to everything to about normal.

    TMG works differently from SAM-e. I have found a balance between TMG, SAM-e, Metafolin and methylb12 works best. For instance I needed 400mg of SAM-e, before TMG, for maximum effect. After adding 500-1000mg of TMG, 200mg of SAM-e works best.

    As far as the gas in the stomach goes, the symptoms tend to step backwards through many symptoms as healing progresses. The stomach lining is afflicted by b12 deficiency by not being able to support the rapid reproduction of cells needed to maintain the stomach in good shape. The secretions change and inflamation results. As healing progresses the symptoms change to reflect whether the nerves are working and what the secretions are now at any given stage of healing. I do remember several periods of belching, especially with sulpherous smelling gases during the decades of deficiencies ending fairly rapidly after starting b12. Improvements continued perhaps for 2 years or so. After nine months only one food sensitivity remained, dairy.


    I took GSH for 6 mths with just more bad nausea and belching.

    Of course. Glutathione (GSH) induces a severe methylfolate deficiency quickly and worsens mb12 and adb12 deficiencies. For me it continued to cause problems for 20 months after discontinuance. During the recovery period I needed 4800 mcg of Metafolin daily to prevent overt deficiency symptoms. I was also injecting 30mg of mb12 daily. This suddenly gave me startup symptoms all over again a couple of hours after I took 4800mcg of Metafolin as in the adb12 later that day. Suddenly they became effective again. The GSH induced deficiencies cause hypersensitivity and inflammation.


    Does folinic acid have any start up symptoms on the liver?

    I don't know. I would suggest Metafolin if possible to help you overcome the induced deficiencies from the GSH.
     

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