'I knew they were sugar pills but I felt fantastic'. The rise of open-label placebos

[A.B.]

Look at above graph. FDA placebo was about 30% effective (in subjective wellbeing, which is the aim of anti-depressants)

You have missed a rather large point. You cannot claim that the placebo made this happen. The effect that you see in a placebo control group is NOT only due to the placebo itself. It is due to many things. A waiting list lacks many things besides the sugar pill that is used as placebo.

Taking a sugar pill and waiting for a mind-body healing effect isn't a useful treatment strategy.

 

[Snowdrop]

To you have any scientific source for claiming that? For example in the case of antidepressants, the 10% drug effect being more 'real', but the 30% placebo effect being 'temporary distraction' only, ie. less real? Dispite actually being 3 times as strong?

I have no way of personally evaluating the study but if it is as it says than all that proves is that the drugs are truly not very effective.

Was there any long term follow up?

 

[pamojja]

I didn't miss that. I wrote:

You are so right that placebo is not just one, but actually many more unknown confounders.

To you have any scientific source for claiming that? For example in the case of antidepressants, the 10% drug effect being more 'real', but the 30% placebo effect being 'temporary distraction' only, ie. less real? Dispite actually being 3 times as strong?

Want to add to the last quote. If the placebo effect would only be a 'temporary distraction', pharmaceutical companies running these very expensive trials would have found out. And just would run them a bit longer to get their drugs with unheard effectiveness approved. Alas, they don't. Because it doesn't work this way.

 

[pamojja]

Was there any long term follow up?

Not one study, but rather looking at the state of affairs with all depression studies. Interesting read:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592645/

 

[A.B.]

An important article to read if you're interested in this topic

Placebo effects are weak: regression to the mean is the main reason ineffective treatments appear to work
http://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11...reason-ineffective-treatments-appear-to-work/

 

[pamojja]

An important article to read if you're interested in this topic

These pharmaceutical companies - waisting billions on failed clinical trials due to regression due to mean - must be really dumb then, if they couldn't make the outcome of their trials look better by considering that..

 

[TiredSam]

If the government, DWP and insurance companies are really serious about saving money at all costs, someone somewhere is soon going to realise that sugar pills are even cheaper than CBT.

I confidently predict that in the near future a five million pound trial will be commissioned to test the efficacy of pacebos (wow how did that typo happen ) on MUS sufferers, and it will prove using the best subjective outcome measures that 69% of subjects reported improvement in their condition and have stopped bothering their GP. For some it will be such a success that they will be able to drop out of the trial before it's even finished. Knighthoods will follow.

The SMC, sensing their market share diminishing, will object strongly to this anti-science (oh the irony) before being invited by the placebo brigade into a big collaborative tent where experts from various disciplines can agree amicably and privately whose finger gets to go in which pie.

Never mind the debate about a patriachy and gender differences - the future is to treat all patients equally like children. If they come whining and complaining to you, just give them some sweets to shut them up and send them on their way. If that doesn't work, stop their allowance.

 

[Snowdrop]

Oh @TiredSam hilariously witty as always.