Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Whit, May 1, 2012.
benfotiamine is for the periphery, allithiamine for the CNS
If you are seeing demonstrable improvement taking tyrosine and increasing your dopamine then you do not have a BH4 deficit imo.Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting step for making dopamine and requires B3, iron, tyrosine and BH4. People who have low levels of BH4 would usually not benefit from the tyrosine and would in fact be at risk for higher levels of phenylalanine if they have low BH4 and supplemented either phenylalanine or tyrosine. So good news
Ah, they play different roles. So both, to cover all the bases?
Good to know. If I start B1 I'll have to make sure I take it away from niacinamide.
I can't take the B multi anyway, as some component of it makes me feel ill. Likely the folate, possibly the inositol.
Has anyone heard of a histamine response to B1 allithiamine? Two days straight of dry, itchy eyes, runny nose, sneezing, etc shortly after taking it. Ecological Formulas product - also contains calcium and phosphorus. Could be coincidence, but doesn't seem like it.. very weird.
It's a disulfide. Allergic reactions are probably not uncommon, especially in those who are sulfur-sensitive. Another reason to prefer benfo.
Ah. Sulfur isn't something I've focused on, but I do have ammonia issues due to CBS, so it makes sense.
First, the amount of sulfur in the allithiamine would have almost zero impact on the ammonia. I assume you are taking less than 100 mg, if so the impact on CBS flux would be like eating 10 grams of cashews or 1/3 of one usual serving. I would bet that there is no impact on ammonia that is relevant. And besides the symptoms of increased ammonia are not those of allergies anyways.
Second, people keep confusing the CBS gene with sulfur sensitivity. They are almost always NOT the same thing. Just like allergies to a sulfa drug has basically zero to do with a CBS mutation. Sulfur sensitivity is often more related to the phenol sulfur transferase issues is I remember right. People need to be careful about tying everything to their genes. An allergic reaction which is certainly possible is about a person's immune system and has virtually zilch to do with their genotype.
Third, benfotiamine and allthiamine are very similar structurally. You can google their chemical structures on the wikipedia. Benfotiamine is a sulfide while allithiamine is a disulfide. The latter is to allow BBB penetration. Benfotiamine has an extra PO3 group as well.
Playing devil's advocate is it possible the formulation has wheat, soy, corn, dairy or something else that you are allergic to? I have to be meticulous about what brands of anything I use due to my Celiac's and my allergies. Then again, don't get me wrong I am NOT suggesting you take something that makes you feel ill. Bad idea.
Also sulfur sensitivity is its own very important issue but for that you need to look broader at the many supplement and foods that have sulfur and decide how they impact you. Remember the CBS homozygous mutation is at best a 10-15% or so increase in trans-sulfuration flux relative to a person with a wild type CBS enzyme under the same loading conditions of methionine and cysteine. The Yasko 10x upregulation is a myth. And while free thiols can be a problem, the tie is not normally due to the CBS pathway based simply on amounts. Their are many reaction pathways including the aforementioned phenol sulfur transferases that involve sulfur.
edit: Again to be clear what you describe really sounds like an allergic reaction.
What I wrote was unclear - I didn't think the allithiamine was impacting ammonia, I was merely suggesting that my ammonia issue indicates CBS expression and thus sulfur might be an problem. Regardless, I was wrong about how said problem would manifest itself, so I appreciate you clearing that up.
I react to most supplements in one way or another, but itchy face is a first.
Is it ok to take multiple forms of Thiamine? The HCL in a B Complex and also some of the other ones listed here seperately?
It seems there is some conflicting evidence on this. The following studies would certainly suggest that benfotiamine enters the CNS:
I see no reason why this wouldn't be ok.
Westlake lab makes the best oral thiamine as well as the following thiamine cream product
You can also try a Google Site Search
Separate names with a comma.