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I have no Molybdenum

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by taniaaust1, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I had a hair analyses test done thinking it probably would come back showing heavy metals (if so my specialist was going to get me to have blood test) .. I rang him today to make appointment in regards to getting test results and he told me it had come back saying I have no moybdenum at all and hence will need to be taking supplements for it.

    He said moybdenum is essential as its needed to make a couple of enzymes and is important to protect against chemicals.

    (highly interesting for me to hear seeing I have MCS).
    .....

    Im going to see him Tuesday so will find out more about my test results then. He's said for me to take 1mg per day and suggested supplement called molyzinc.

    Im wondering if this issue is the norm in those with MCS? and would like to hear from others who's had their moybdenum tested.
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Tania.

    Molybdenum forms a cofactor for three enzymes in the body: sulfite oxidase, aldehyde oxidase, and xanthine oxidase. The first one converts sulfite to sulfate, and is very important in the sulfur metabolism. If it doesn't work at a high enough rate, sulfite rises, and that causes headaches and other symptoms, and also depleted glutathione. Aldehyde oxidase processes aldehydes, which are also toxic if they are allowed to build up too much. Xanthine oxidase is in the pathway that metabolizes purines, which are components of DNA and RNA. This enzyme produces urate, which has an antioxidant property, and is excreted in the urine.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  3. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    tania, I have mcs and had I showed next to no molybdenum either :)

    Rich has done a nice summary there.

    When I started taking a molybdenum supplement again recently I had nausea and other symptoms due to increased detox I think. Perhaps the zinc will help minimise any symptoms? Molybdenum is high in some foods and I upped those for a while, but in my recent experience the supplements are very effective!
    I haven't been retested but I am taking a decent dose of molybdenum (just upped to 150mcg) now I'm attempting to support methylation again.

    Best, Anne.

    (ETA had to knock the dose right back as think it might be causing too much detox!)


  4. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Thanks for the replies :)

    Ive been researching and was surprised to find out deficiencies in this are very rare. http://www.vitamin-update.com/definition.cfm/id/35.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_deficiency

    So i looked up what sulfites with using just sulfites as search term and interestingly the first site I saw was one which talks about CFS/ME and sulfites.

    http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/Sulfides.html
    ......

    This makes me think this may be one of the rare issues out there but which is commonly found in CFS? What percent of us have that deficiency?. Why arent these unusual issues we have studied more!!

    This molybdenum deficiency explains many of the issues I have to things including why i cant handle alcohol, saccharin and the green food colouring of a sports drink I had which made me very ill, which I think must of had that yellow colouring in it.
  5. Francelle

    Francelle Senior Member

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    Hello Tania!

    I am wondering, did you have your hair analysis done through Interclinical Laboratories? I had HTMA (Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis) done through them in 2007 and it was a well done report. It included Toxic Elements, Toxic Ratios, Significant Ratios, suggested dietary, supplement approaches and a lot of discussion of the results. I found my copy last evening after reading your post and read my report again. I may get another HTMA done soon, it was so good.

    Unfortunately since I had mine done, although I have made changes to the supplements I take, I now have Gastroparesis which means that my food intake has totally changed to mostly a liquid diet. I'm not that sure that I get enough protein in my diet either now, so need to probably get a powdered protein replacement, however it could be timely to have the test done again which will indicate where things need improvement - altho' I know it doesn't test for protein per se.

    My Molybdenum also was just a whisker above undetectable at that time. My copper was too high & altho' my zinc was in the normal range when it came to the ratio between Cu (copper) & Zn (Zinc) it was too low. Sodium and potassium both were very low also. Interesting!

    Of the toxic elements only mercury was showing any rise and that was still in the reference range - phew!

    I'd be interested to hear more of your report.
  6. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Wow Francelle.. your results are very like mine my copper is right in the centre of the high range. My zinc too is in the middle of normal range but due to having my copper to high, my zinc/copper ratio is low to. (My sodium and potassium are on the low side of normal but okay... I eat a ton of salt).

    Yes I did get it done throu InterClinical Labs.

    I'd be curious of others having this test too .. what percent of us end up with this kind of finding with our copper and the molybdenum?
    .......

    The other things out of normal range were:
    Germanium low, I had a third of a normal level (it states that deficiency signs and conditions have not yet been documented in humans so they dont know what that trace mineral deficiency can cause).

    The ratios of Calicum/phosphorus was high with the ones for Calicum and Potassium along with Calicum/Magnesium both those ratios were so high that they were going off the top of the graph.
    With my sodium/magnesium and zinc/copper and Iron/copper being all in the low ratio area. The only ratio I had in acceptable range was my sodium/potassium.

    With the toxic ratios...Out of 9 toxic ratios I only have two in acceptable range.
    i again had things everywhere going off the actual graph.. going off graph is calicum/lead ....zinc/cadmium... sulphur/cadmium... sulphur/lead .. Ive no idea what it means to have these going off of graph as there is no high area on that graph instead they just go out of the acceptable levels. Marked low ratios is iron/mercury and Selenium/mercury.
    ............

    I dont know about your report but I was amazed at the correctness of mine ... eg it said I'd be a slow metabolism (that is so true) and went on to mention that I had a hypoglycemia profile (blood tests have shown hypoglycemia). Said high copper is associated with PMS.. i get extreme PMS. It said I'd have an increased need for Vit C...interestingly I actually do as it helps me.

    I also have hormonal imbalances which it also mentioned in the area about my zinc/copper ratio.
    The results went on to explain what I should be eatting and actually mentioned basically the diet Im currently already on due to Ive found out it is what does help me... telling me to avoid things i already know make me worst.
    It also explained my issue with why I cant keep a good iron level and have no iron storage (noted by blood tests). My high copper antagonises iron and the ratios are affecting it.
  7. floydguy

    floydguy Senior Member

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    I am low in molybdenum but I think copper level is okay. I've been meaning to try supplementing to see if it helps.
  8. Gavman

    Gavman Senior Member

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    I had the same problem. Gonna go pick some Molybdenum tomorrow.

    Got a hair tissue mineral analysis from 2006 by Interclinical laboratories. I'm going to supplement with molybdenum for a while before sending back. It seems to me that the chronic fatigue virus, whatever it is, depletes certain minerals, my NAET (dealing with allergies using kinesiology) practitioner seemed to find most people who saw her had low molybdenum. So it may be vital in allergy problems and depleted along with everything else.

    The higher our body's systems are functioning, the more likely homeostasis is possible and the 'illness' will disappear. Thats my hope. Thats why i work on things on an emotional/psychological level too so that i'm calmer and my system is regulated.
  9. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Update to this thread... after supplementation of molybdenum (actually started getting good effects after only 5 days of supplementation) .. I regained my ability to absorb new info again, something I hadnt been able to do well for many years :) . Its so much helped my ability to learn things again. This breakthrou was as big as the one I got from B12 injections (which helped my memory issues). I suspect I'd been deficient in this since my teen years (that is when my learning ability first started to decrease).

    Due to this.. I highly recommend everyone to be tested for Molybdenum levels and try supplementation if levels are low. Its making quite a difference to me.
  10. harrycat

    harrycat

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    Great to hear Tania ! What dose of molybdenum are you using please ?
  11. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    That's wonderful, Tania!

    Rich
  12. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I am fairly new here, so thought I would chime in as one who is very low in molybdenum (Mo). I first had hair mineral analysis done over a year ago by Trace Elements, Inc., whom I highly recommend.

    My Mo, cobalt (Co) which comes for B12, and Potassium (K) were below the detectable level. My Sodium (Na) and Manganese (Mn) were just barely in the normal range.

    My zinc and copper were normal, probably because I have been supplementing them at a fairly high level for several years due to macular degeneration. They were the reason I originally had the test - I wanted to make sure they were not suppressing iron. The iron was fine (corroborated by blood test), but a bunch of other problems showed up.

    My Calcium (Ca) was normal, but the Ca/K ratio was way high due to low K, and the Ca/Mg ratio was also somewhat high, so my dietician has me stop Ca supplements.

    I had a terrible time finding supplemental Mo. I finally found some out-of-state. I was taking 300 mcg/day. When I went to buy some more, one of the store employees had a fit about it having dangerous side effects, so I cut back to 150 mcg.

    I finally go retested about a year later (way too long). The Mo is now barely detectable. I am back on 300 mcg/day. The Co is up to barely detectable with 1000 mcg sublingual methyl-B12/day. The K is up to barely detectable with 300 mg/day in pills and 300 - 600 mg/day in potassium salt (salt substitute) in salt water. The Na is down despite 1/8 - tsp sodium salt/day in salt water. I have not been supplementing the Mn and it went down.

    The Ca is down, but so is the Mg so that ratio is worse. The Ca/K ratio has improved, but is still off-the-chart high. It is 36 and should be 4.2.

    What my results call additional elements, those for which there is limited documentation, were either undetectable or borderline low. Most of the detectable ones decreased on the second test.

    With all of these mineral deficiencies, it is no wonder my metabolism doesnt function correctly. I suspect that this a effect rather than a cause of the ME. I should also admit that I am less than consistent in taking my supplements, but am trying to do better.

    Tania, who makes the molyzinc? I am dreading getting more Mo from my current source and Im down to my last bottle.
  13. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    I have really high levels of copper. Don't know about the molybdenum. I have seen quite a few with ME that are high in copper.
  14. Richard Lee

    Richard Lee

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    Hi Tania

    I don't have CFS, though I share a number of common symptoms, yet I also showed VERY low Mo on my Interclinical hair test.

    It was my only mineral marked low, though Ca, Mg and Co only just escaped being marked low.

    In the ratios, my Zn/Cu was also low, but also - curiously - Na/K.

    My new doctor - who was recommended somewhere in this forum - said that he usually found low Mo only in people with bad allergies or asthma. Perhaps that's due to its role as a cofactor in sulfite oxidase. Sulfur-containing foods and sulfur-based preservatives cannot be metabolized properly without enough Mo. In particular, Mo-deficiency interferes with the metabolism of the sulfur-containing amino acids, methionine and cysteine.

    He speculated that my gut-issues might be the result of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), first by intercepting dietary B12 and second by generating acetaldyhyde, which requires Mo to detoxify.

    Mo is also required for the mobilization of iron from liver-reserves. That might explain why my serum iron is consistently lowish despite normal ferritin.

    Mo is a crucial ingredient of enamel. That might partly explain why my teeth are so sensitive to even mild acid, why they suffer acid erosion so easily, and why they stain so readily.

    He recommended 1mg Mo daily (Thorne's Molybdenum picolinate). I have been taking it for 9 days, and in that time my dull stomach-ache has gone away, and my diaphragm no longer feels under abdominal pressure, although I am still burping too much. Moreover, my recent gynocomastia has dramatically shrunk to half the size it was 9 days ago. The hormonal correction might be due to the chelation of copper by Mo; some research links the Zn/Cu ratio to the testosterone/estrogen balance.

    Cheers
    RustyJ likes this.
  15. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi LS,

    There are some experts that suspect, in fact one of them has told me outright that copper toxicity could be behind most cases of ME/CFS. Not sure if that's true, but she's seen many cases, and in theory it does seem to have some merit -- especially if one has that OVER-wired by tired type of ME.

    Zinc is needed for proper immune function, and if copper is high, that could block zinc uptake and utilization. Also high copper supposedly stimulates the adrenals into exhaustion, which creates a vicious cycle, causing one to lose more zinc, magnesium, etc.

    Here's a couple links:

    http://www.tvernonlac.com/copper-toxicity.html

    ...and this is the one that I could relate to (fat intolerance, weight loss, etc.):

    http://www.westonaprice.org/metabolic-disorders/copper-zinc-imbalance

    (She was sick for over 20 years...)

    I've been told I may have a copper overload (toxicity) issue, as I was prescribed both copper only supps and zinc/copper for several years off and on, and had a particularly bad reaction 3 months ago when I took 1mg of copper. But it could be related to the b12/folate/methylation issue as well.......

    d.
  16. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

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    Interesting that about CFS raising copper. I had hair analysis some time ago and copper was quite high but I never did anything about it.
    I think that needs some consideration. Thanks for the post.
  17. aprilk1869

    aprilk1869 Senior Member

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  18. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    Molybdenum was very low for me, too. Copper low, Calcium low, Magnesium low, Manganese low, Cobalt low, Germanium low, Lithium low, Vanadium low, Rubidium low (what the heck is that? Don't know if it's good or bad to be low in it, lol.) Silica didn't register but I don't know if meant I didn't have any or if it was error in the test. Sodium/Postassium ratio off, bunch of other things off or low but the above were the worst.

    I don't know if I'm unusual with having low copper. Zinc was low too, but since my copper was so low my copper/zinc ratio was off.

    It was very slow going getting everything up, except for iron and lithium, those happened quickly. Better now, but not the profile of a healthy person. Calcium won't act right, doc says I have the marker for the kind of osteoporosis that's due to messed up utilization of calcium. Not seeing any docs right now.

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