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I have NEVER been this ill- Please Please tell me it is heavy metal-detox reaction

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cassandra68, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. Cassandra68

    Cassandra68

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    Hello everyone! This is my 1st thread. Well here goes................

    First, I will not go into details about the protocol my doctor prescribed-after getting lost in all of these threads/posts I see there are many ways to go about detox as theories and protocols wildly vary.

    Generally - I am doing an oral chelation with DMSA to address lead and mercury. Starting end of Feb. I take the DMSA for 4 days on then 10 days off. When "off" I take extra supps. to support my system during the process.

    After 2 days on full dose Rx I felt like I was coming unglued. Crying, anxious, overwhelmed, could not attend to simple tasks, confused etc. Doctor had me reduce dosage and add Charcoal 1hr. This helped these symptoms tremendously- I was able to inrease slowly to full dosage with only slight brain fogginess.

    However, now physically I am worse. Specifically, (in order of most limiting first), 1) I have TERRIBLE PEM I am no longer able to so the smallest amt. of activity/exertion without becoming short of breath, heart rate skyrockets, I get mentally slow significant difficulty info. processing. 2) muscle and joint achiness 3) little cog./psych. Issues 4) pain/cramping lower sides-back ( think people are calling these liver or kidney symptoms) 5) vibration tingling sensation in legs 6) although not necessarily bothering me in terms of functioning- all my tiny red dots over torso have multiplied and spread up to chest area, underside of arms and legs-

    The last one more interesting than troublesome. The others- well they simply terrify me. Could not walk the length of a few gates in airport husband had to get wheelchair me and a shower is planned for at least 2 days.

    Could this be simply a reaction to the detox as opposed to indicating just an overall worsening?

    I am DESPARATE to hear it is heavy metal detox related-but only if it is true..

    Cassandra
     
  2. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Hi Cassandra,
    I started DMSA last month and did only one round of ten days at 50mg every three hours during the day and four hours at night. I felt a bit of a reaction during but better afterwards.
    What dosage have you been taking and how often during your four days? What other supps are you taking?
    I don't know whether your symptoms are heavy metal detox also I'm not sure what it means feeling worse after it. What does your doc say?
     
  3. Lala

    Lala Senior Member

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    Hello Cassandra,
    I can not comment on DMSA but those litlle red dots are probably petechiaes, which are signs of infection.
     
  4. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    I feel exactly like you lately, I also have the petechiaes. I feel like I can't get enough air, my muscles are tingling and cramping all the time. Feel awful.

    It started while taking vitamin b2, it seems like it mobilized a lot of crap... :-/ Many thing I tried did the same, like MSM. I hope it will get better soon, I never tried charcoal because I'm worry it could interfere with my thyroid pill, otherwise I would take it too.
     
  5. chilove

    chilove Senior Member

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    I"m not sure what the symptoms of mercury detox are but if it is a detox crisis I've heard that bentonite clay can be very helpful in relieving symptoms.

    I hope you feel better soon!

    Audrey
     
  6. Cassandra68

    Cassandra68

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    Xrunnner- I take 250mg 2 x a day. Other supps. Something called "Metalloclear" (zinc, aerial part, hops, reduced iso alpha-acids); Something called "Biomins" (calcium, iron, potassium iodine, zinc, magnesium asparate, selenium, copper)

    I don't think I added that I am doing the 4 days on and 10days off for 3 mos. I will be ending my 3 mos. At end of May.
    Do you still feel better? If yes, what symptoms have improved?

    Cassandra
     
  7. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    I haven't done heavy metal detox but I've spoken to one person who did and I know it made her feel terrible for a few weeks but it did pass and afterwards her functioning was better than pre detox. I hope it passes soon

    When you are able, may I ask what heavy metal tests you did that showed you had high mercury and lead? Many thanks, no rush for a reply
     
  8. Cassandra68

    Cassandra68

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    Audrey- does "detox crisis" mean the toxins are at large after being pulled out of the tissues causing increased symptoms? Bentonite clay-is that a supp? I am not familiar with it. Really appreciate your advice and well-wishes. :thumbsup::Sign Cassandra
     
  9. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Wayne likes this.
  10. Cassandra68

    Cassandra68

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    gu3vara- that just sucks that you feel bad too. Not to be too much of a Debbie Downer, but is this an all time new low for you too?

    It is certainly discouraging when I realize 1-2 years ago while I was not "well" with a good amount of effort (diet, meds., supps., pacing) I was able to do much more. I had days that although didn't feel 'normal' I could at least push myself enough to feel like me. Then the usual PEM the next day. And you said it exactly as I explain it to others "feel like I cannot get enough air." It is crazy the body literally feels like it is oxygen starved. Do you think it is related to mitochondrial dysfunction?

    How long have you taken B2? Is it used for detox? One last question :rolleyes:.........what is "MSM"?
    About charcoal- I take synthroid and cytomel for thyroid as well, doc. tells me I just gave to take charcoal at least an hour b4 or after any other meds.

    Here is to both of us feeling better soon:victory: Cassandra
     
  11. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    This! Go to your doctor. You need to get tested!
     
  12. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    Yes it is, unfortunately. Like you, I felt awful for many years but no matter how crappy I was feeling (sometimes worse than now), I was still able to walk around, go to the park etc..now my legs aren't working anymore, they just cramp and feel weak...

    I really don't know for sure, I think it's related to low blood volume, giving anemia symptoms. Someone told me she fells better taking oxygen when she's like this, maybe it can compensate to a certain degree the low blood volume by increasing the content of oxygen in the blood. I might ask my doctor next time I see her, hoping she let me try it!

    I tried B2 for a month, I'm giving it a break now as I started having pale stool on it, I think it overloaded my liver. If you look at the thread in this section, one is about B2. Many of us are having strong startup reaction from taking B2 and manganese while no reaction at all when the same amount it's included in a B Complex. Could B2 deficiency be implicated in CFS? maybe yes, maybe no, think it's worth experimenting.

    Regarding MSM, people often take it with glucosamine for their joints, supposed to induced some detox too, I felt awful on it and had to stop after a week. That's a period in my life that I was ready to try anything to feel better, I'm much more careful now.

    Good luck to you, hope you'll find some relief!
     
    Cassandra68 likes this.
  13. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Hi Cassandra, sorry to hear you are feeling so terrible! I'm not a doctor so take this advice with that in mind.

    You might like to check out the Cutler Protocol as someone else mentioned. His protocol is based on the time that the DMSA is active in the bloodstream, so you take a low dose(eg 12.5mg) every 4 hours, even at night. This keeps the level of the chelator even which minimises redistribution. Redistribution apparently occurs when the DMSA levels fall away in the blood and some of the mercury that was picked up is dropped in a new spot. This could be what is making you feel worse. http://onibasu.com/wiki/Cutler_protocol

    250mg is a pretty big dose. Maybe be a bit careful with copper in supplements too, apparently copper levels can easily become too high if you take too much, which will add to you feeling terrible. I take 12.5mg every 4 hours for 3 days, 2 nights.

    Also, make sure you don't have any amalgam fillings when you are doing chelation.

    Good luck, hope things improve soon.
     
    Cassandra68 likes this.
  14. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Were you taking B2 orally? If yes, it is virtually impossible to overdose on it. Do not dismiss the pale stools as being caused by excess B2 because that is highly unlikely!

    By the way, just to make sure we are on the same page, "pale" in this context means light clay colored.
     
  15. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    Yeah, I meant I think it caused some kind of healing crisis.
     
  16. Cassandra68

    Cassandra68

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    Nanonug-I am not sure what you mean- what kind of test?
     
  17. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Pale stools means you need manganese 2.5 mg then increase till stools are brown. Are you taking b12?
     
  18. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    I was reinforcing Lala's advice to get yourself tested for potential infections. Did the red dots start in your abdomen?
     
  19. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    Not really, low manganese is supposed to cause yellowish stool, I'm talking about pale stool like clay. It's better without the b2 now, I'll resume eventually and might try more manganese, but I was already taking 150% of the RDA in supplement form.
     
  20. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Cassandra,

    Yes I have felt much better after that first chelation round, not so good during those days also because getting up twice at night to take my DMSA was quite tiring. But I'm glad I did it.
    The symptom that has improved the most is mental sharpness. Last year, I did a DMSA challenge test which left me a bit foggy. After the chelation it went away and in general I feel more resilient. I'm going to start another round the next few days. I can't wait because one of the offshoots of the exercise is knowing to what extent my illness is due to mercury rather than infections.

    If you didn't have those symptoms before you started your DMSA, I'd assume it's related. I don't agree with previous posts talking about infections or general detox symptoms. My guess is that by taking two such heavy doses of DMSA per day, you may be mobilizing too much mercury and some of it isn't chelated and excreted but just redistributed. That would make you feel worse (according to Andy Cutler, improper use of DMSA can move mercury into brain, liver and spinal chord).

    DMSA has a short half life, hence low and frequent doses help reduce the risk of redistribution. Personally I wouldn't take any copper which can be toxic. I also don't understand the logic of not supporting your detox pathways and antioxidants during both the on and off days, as that can stress detox pathways and deplete antioxidants.

    I'm not convinced by the chelation and supps plan you're following. If you are getting worse and feel desperate, you may want to stop all you have been doing, take a step back, acquire more information on the subject of mercury detox and re-evaluate your strategy. Why take a chance? You're supposed to get better not worse!

    All the best

    PS: I'm following the Cutler Protocol, I'm quite happy with it. If you want to know more about it check in to this related forum, http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/82894
    it's got plenty of useful info about the protocol. Also lots of people with previous bad mercury detox experiences share their thoughts and knowledge.
     
    Cassandra68 likes this.

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