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I found a new MethylCobalamin lozenge that’s more effective for me than Enzymatic Therapy

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by R&D Don, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. R&D Don

    R&D Don

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    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post on Phoenix Rising.


    A little about me
    I have a Bachelor’s Degree. I have 14 years of work experience as an Engineering Test Technician, in the field of Electronics Research & Development, working in the military, then at a Fortune 50 company.

    I have had chronic fatigue since birth. It is genetic from my father’s father.

    From ages 14 to 45, I visited 12 doctors, to try to diagnose my condition, and heal. None of those doctors produced any healing in me.

    At age 45, I had trouble walking more than 100 feet. I had to rest 5 minutes after climbing one flight of stairs. I needed an electric scooter to go shopping for groceries, and then I had problems counting out money at the checkout. My fatigue prevented me from holding down a job, and it was affecting my marriage. At that point, I decided to see what I could discover myself. I found that my electronics R&D Testing skills do cross over into the field of Chronic Fatigue R&D Testing.

    My hunch was that I was extremely deficient of a nutrient. The first time I took MethylCobalamin (MeCbl) sublingually, I had an immediate reaction, and intense healing start-up symptoms. That day changed my life. When I did a Google search on “HydroxyCobalamin”, I found Phoenix Rising.

    By doing testing of nutrients, I have been able to heal myself enough to hold down a full time job, and walk 3 miles in one hour.

    Since I discovered that my fatigue is reduced when I take MeCbl, I have visited 3 different doctors. None of them have been able to help me, either.


    I found a new MethylCobalamin on the market
    Recently, I did a search on iHerb for “MethylCobalamin”, to see if any new products have come on the market. BINGO!

    Country Life released a new product labeled “Methyl B12”. The UPC code is 0-15794-06304-9. The iHerb code is CLF-06304 (I will put the iHerb code in parenthesis, in case you want to see the label of the exact product I am using, the ingredients, the dosages, the manufacturer, etc).

    This product is not to be confused with the Country Life product labeled “Superior B12” (CLF-41646), which contains Folic Acid and Ascorbic Acid.

    Country Life’s “Methyl B12” comes in 5 mg lozenges, and it is cheaper than Enzymatic Therapy (EMT-05623), by a factor of 4, for 5 mg.

    I need to take 25–30 mg of MeCbl per day.

    I bought two different lots of Country Life”Methyl B12”, and performed testing on my body.


    My finding on Country Life “Methyl B12” (CLF-06304)
    --In my body, it is more effective than Enzymatic Therapy MeCbl (EMT-05623). With Country Life, I only have to take 5–6 lozenges per day, versus 25–30 lozenges of Enzymatic Therapy per day. It was difficult for me to take that many Enzymatic Therapy lozenges per day. I could usually take only 20 lozenges per day, which resulted in deficiency. Because I now take fewer lozenges per day of Country Life, it is easier for me to take them all every day, which results in more healing for me.

    --Country Life “Methyl B12” Lot # 13D808A with an expiration date of 04/15: I can get the lozenge to stay between my cheek and upper gums for two hours.

    --Country Life “Methyl B12” Lot # 13H762A with an expiration date of 09/15: the lozenge totally dissolves in about 30 minutes, and that is if I don’t talk, don’t touch it with my tongue, and don’t move my mouth or cheeks. I take this Lot # when I have to eat or talk within 30 minutes of taking the lozenge. I figure that taking 4 lozenges that last 30 minutes is the same as taking 1 lozenge that lasts 2 hours.


    How I take MeCbl lozenges to maximize absorption
    --Step 1) I make sure I am taking enough Potassium (NOW-01471), so that I don’t develop hypokalemia (low potassium - which can be fatal). Currently, I take a total of 5 grams of powdered Potassium Gluconate daily. Less than that, and I get low potassium symptoms. I put one and a half teaspoons of Potassium Gluconate into a 16 ounce water bottle, and I drink 8 of these bottles per day, either with or without food. When I first started taking powdered Potassium Gluconate, I had to start with a half a teaspoon dose, and take it with food, because anything more would cause me stomach and intestinal irritation. I increased my Potassium dose by a quarter teaspoon a week, until I got up to one and a quarter teaspoons. When I try one and a half teaspoons, the intestinal irritation returns.

    --Step 2) I make sure I am not going to be eating anything, and not talking a lot, for the next 1-2 hours.

    --Step 3) I rinse out my mouth and gums with water, and move my tongue around my upper cheek and gums, to make sure no food particles are there, and to clean it out.

    --Step 4) I make sure there is a good amount of saliva between my upper cheek and gums, and on my tongue.

    --Step 5) I place the MeCbl lozenge on my tongue, and I roll it on my tongue for 2 seconds, to coat the lozenge really good with saliva.

    --Step 6) I quickly move the lozenge between my upper cheek and gums, as far up as it can go. After the lozenge is in place, I try to keep my tongue away from the lozenge. My goal is to get the lozenge to last 1-2 hours.

    --Step 7) I try to talk as little as possible. If I do talk, I try to keep my tongue away from the lozenge, and I try to keep my saliva production down. I swallow my saliva as quickly as possible, to keep the saliva from contacting the lozenge.

    --Step 8) Over time, the dry lozenge absorbs the saliva, and dries out the cells of my cheek and gums. This slows down MeCbl absorption. About 20 minutes after inserting the lozenge into my mouth, I get a good amount of saliva on my tongue. As quick as possible, I move my tongue and get the saliva between the lozenge and my cheek and gum cells. I try to disturb the lozenge the least amount possible. I reform the lozenge into a shape that makes it last longer.

    --Step 9) In about 30 minutes, I repeat Step 8. By this time, the lozenge is smaller. If the center of the lozenge is dry, I try to move just a little bit of saliva towards the middle of the lozenge, but not too much.

    --Step 10) In about 30 minutes, I repeat Setp 8. My goal is to have the lozenge disappear at the 2 hour mark.

    --Step 11) When the lozenge is totally dissolved, I put water in my mouth. I repeated move my tongue over my cheek and gum cells where the lozenge used to be. I continue this until all residue of the lozenge is gone. This gives my cheek and gum cells time to recover and recuperate. Then, I thoroughly rinse water through my teeth, to get the lozenge residue off my tooth surfaces. If I can, I brush or floss my teeth, to get all the lozenge residue off my teeth. Some lozenges are acidic. If the acid has a pH level lower than 5.5, the tooth enamel will erode. That is why I try to avoid all lozenges with acid. Do a Wikipedia search on “Remineralization of Teeth” for more information.

    --Step 12) If the lozenge is still in my mouth two hours after I inserted it, I swallow the lozenge and perform Step 10 above.

    --Step 13) If I need to take more lozenges that day, I wait at least 2 hours, so that my cheek and gum cells can recover and recuperate.

    --Step 14) Just to be safe, in case of demineralization of teeth, I take one capsule of Calcium HydroxyApatite (NOW-01253) with each meal. I brush 1-2 times daily with plenty of 0.454% Stannous Fluoride toothpaste (I use Crest Pro-Health), and I use a 0.05% Fluoride mouthwash (I use Act Brand). Dentists can prescribe fluoride mouthwash that is higher than 0.05%. It is prescription because that amount will cause the surface of a child’s growing tooth to deform. Because Stannous Fluoride contains Tin, I take Modified Citrus Pectin (NOW-03075) on an empty stomach, to help remove excess Tin from the body.


    If you test COUNTRY LIFE “METHYL B12”, please post here, and mention the LOT NUMBER.


    Moving forward, I want to make more posts on my findings on other nutrients. I also want to post my testing procedures, and the protocol that helped me heal. I am still suffering from fatigue, which slows down my communications abilities.


    R&D Don
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2014
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Don.

    I have been testing Country Life “Methyl B12” Lot # 13D808A with an expiration date of 04/15, these past few days. I use 6 at a time around the upper dental arch. Based on my last few days usage I would give it a short term 5 star rating. Now I settle down for the long haul and test it for the next month.

    I also keep these along the gums for 2 hours, but push in from outside flattening the tablets as they get squishy and spread out for maximum areas of contact. I do this several times a day with 20mg a day of Dibencoplex along the lower lip and gum. Increased methylfolate minimizes urinary excretion in the hours following the doses.

    Thank you for finding this, testing it and pointing us towards it.
     
  3. South

    South Senior Member

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    Don, as a side note, vitamin K2 supplements, avoiding sugar, and rinsing my mouth with a tea tree oil type mouthwash before bed has done more to prevent teeth sensitivity for me than any fluoride product ever did - and this avoids the thyroid-harming effects of fluoride.
    Not trying to change the topic of the this thread though, but thought I'd mention it - doing online (web in general) searches for fluoride + thyroid will bring up lots of other discussion about it, some of them are useful.
     
  4. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    @R&D Don thank you for sharing. It's not just that Country Life is cheaper (which is great), but the pills are much higher doses than Enzymatic thus greatly reducing how many lozenges you have to deal with. That would make doing methylation a lot easier!

    @Freddd I'm looking forward to your testing results. Before I switch I want to hear from you that they work as well as Enzymatic, as I'm really risk averse right now.
     
  5. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    @R&D Don

    Potassium powder foot baths are another way to get some of your daily requirements. Add a tbsp or so to a basin with warm water and soak your feet for a couple of hours. It's harder to guage how much is absorbed but it gives your stomach a break from the contstant barrage of potassium.

    Thanks for the info about country life methylcobalamin.
     
  6. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    That is a gallon of fluid a day. :wide-eyed: How long have you been doing this? No sign of kidney problems?
     
  7. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    I just ordered a bottle, and will try it. Thanks for the post.
     
  8. Stewart

    Stewart

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    @R&D Don or @Freddd - can you tell me how easy is it to cut the 5mg Country Life lozenges into pieces? I've been using the Solgar 5mg sublingual tablets, but they have an unfortunate tendency to crumble when you try to cut them into halves or quarters. Do these tablets cut well, or do they also fall apart?
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I have never tried to cut them as I use 2 to 6 at a time. They seem crumbly.
     
  10. skwag

    skwag

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    I got a couple bottles of the new country life methyl b12 (Lot # 13D808A) and have been using it for a little over a week. To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of it.

    THE GOOD
    I've been taking four or five ( x 5mg) a day, one or two at a time. Shortly after I get the tablet mushed up in my upper lip, I get a noticeable reaction. It feels sort of like a nicotine buzz, which slowly fades over the next hour. I never had this reaction with the Enzy, ( although I possibly had slight sensations developing in my extremities from the Enzy).

    THE BAD
    Since starting the Country life, I've developed an on and off sore tongue and have had a couple painful acne type bumps show up on the back of my scalp. These are both symptoms I had before I started Freddd's protocol, and had disappeared shortly after starting. I do not appear to be in folate deficiency/insufficiency as there is no sign of angular chelitis, which has been a reliable indicator for me.

    I also seem to be more fatigued since starting the country life, but this is hard to quantify.

    Thoughts?
     
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I believe that the higher dose penetrates deeper causing more tissues to be affected at once, perhaps putting strain on the folate on the epithelial layer yet again. do you ever get edema or some of the other quick folate symptoms? It's hard to tell of course without getting several items making up a pattern
    ENZY and country life are somewhat different, I am taking both. Consider the possibility of lower potassium. Do you have the symptoms list of both?
     
  12. skwag

    skwag

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    Freddd,

    At the time you first posted about edema as a leading indicator, I was in a state of folate insufficiency. I was able to see that the edema that I had, which was slight, disappeared at the same time as the angular chelitis. I have not been in a deficiency state since so I don't know if edema is a leading indicator for me, although I would guess that it very well may be. In any case, I don't have edema or angular chelitis at the moment.

    As far as potassium, I've rarely had to take more than 1g a day, and I usually only take 6x 99mg. I only increase the dose if I get any twitching, tight muscles or arrhythmia. I haven't noticed anything amiss the past week. That said, I just now noticed my heart skip a beat. Maybe youre right about the potassium.

    The enzy and the Country Life are definitely different. I don't think, however, that much of that difference is related to the higher dose. I've done a few high dose enzy ( 30 mg ) tests and nothing happenned. It just takes one Country Life ( 5mg) and I start feeling a little weird.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Skwag,

    start feeling a little weird

    Sounds like CNS effects. I have had a different set of CNS effects and healing since starting it. However, the acne is something else, usually a partial methylation block in one layer. It is very rare to be caused by dry b12 tablets. I've had it with HyCbl and broken down ineffective MeCbl injections, never with effective MeCbl except a longer term folate insufficiency. Also, folic acid. SO look for any more things an lets see if we can pin it down.

    Version 1.2 12/08/2013

    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

    There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.

    IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,

    Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness

    Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure

    Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.


    Group 2a - Both

    IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation


    Group 2b – Either or both

    Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue



    Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

    These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.

    Edema - An additional thing I would like to mention. I would never have found it without 5 years of watching the onset of paradoxical folate insufficiency and trying to catch it earlier and earlier and to figure out what was causing it and to reverse it. For me the onset order goes back to the day of onset now with edema and a sudden increase of weight. I noticed that within 2 hours of taking sufficient Metafolin I would have an increase in urine output.


    Old symptoms returning

    Edema

    Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores,

    Skin rashes, increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips,

    Increased hypersensitive responses, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms

    IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract,

    Coated tongue, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Increase irritability, Heart palpitations,


    Longer term, very serious

    Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, bleeding easily




    Group 4 - HyCbl onset, degraded MeCbl onset, MeCbl after photolytic breakdown onset.

    Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.
     
  14. skwag

    skwag

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    Freddd,

    Nothing else sticks out from the lists. So here's what we got.

    1) A couple acne type lesions on back of scalp
    2) On and off sore tongue
    3) Increased fatigue in muscles - ( seems like energy is just quick to run out )
    4) One observed heart arrhythmia

    I just find the first 2 to be so odd, because these are "b12 deficiency symptoms".
    If any more arrhythmia shows up, I'll increase the potassium.

    As far as folic acid, I take none. Not even from enriched grains.

    Perhaps what's going on is the same thing you've found over and over. The new B12 is effective so healing is happening on one or more levels and that healing is depleting something else. It doesn't seem like that something else is potassium or folate, because I have some experience with those deficiency states. Assuming these symptoms don't get worse, my inclination is to not make any adjustments to any other supplements and see if we can just ride this out for a couple weeks. If there are still symptoms at that point, I can begin the laborious task of fiddling with dosages. On the other hand, if these symptoms are suggestive of a particular deficiency then it is easy enough to test, but without some direction the problem becomes much more difficult.

    Slightly off Topic : Do you notice the Country Life tastes like artificial sweetener? It has a similar aftertaste to Equal.
    Is that the Xylitol?

    Can you describe your different set of CNS effects since starting the Country Life?
     
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Skwag,

    Seems like the xylitol to me.
     
  16. DKnickerbocker

    DKnickerbocker

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    Hi fredd…. your 2nd to the last post sounds like some of the symptoms I've been dealing with since November… not sure if it is a Methyl trap… wondering if you could pop over to my thread on "High folate Levels" and add your 2 cents

    I'm desperate to find some answers… and these health issues are starting to scare me.

    I would appreciate you wisdom !
     
  17. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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  18. Xhale19991

    Xhale19991

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    ????

    That's nothing. I drink 3 sometimes 4 gallons a day.
     
  19. DKnickerbocker

    DKnickerbocker

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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  20. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    Put an @ symbol in front of their name. After you put the @ symbol and start typing a name a list of member names that match what you're typing will pop up and you can choose from the list or just keep typing.
     

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