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I don't understand what I am trying to achieve....??

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by whitmore, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. whitmore

    whitmore

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    Very new to all this...and overwhelmed. Main problems aredepression and insomnia. Physical energy pretty good. Some brain fog, which improves on Lactulose(NH 3? ).

    Am taking methyl B12(3 mg, injected), leucoverin and methyl folate. I thought all this was supposed to result in normalizing the methylation cycle in order to create glutathione and be able to detox.
    But the doctor has also prescribed a glutathione nasal spray.

    Doesn't that just bypass the whole methylation cycle thing? And that would appear to be good, if the point of all this is to raise glutathione. Is this the point? Or do all the components like the methyl B12, methylfolate etc. have other beneficial functions, which we don't want to shut down via negative feedback loop?

    So far since starting therapy, I have had dreadful itching,lesions and constipation(hence Lactulose) and have had to take Zyrtec! So much for alternative medicine! Wondering if I should add SAMe--it's supposed to help reduce histamine. Or is that going to mess things up further? My genetic profile is in my signature, if that offers up any clues.

    Thanks in advance for any insights.
     
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    whitmore

    You might want to carefully go through the 2 main methylation protocols discussed here as they both include more nutrients than you are taking. The balance between them is also important.

    You might be able to raise glutathione by taking it (this is controversial) but you won't be able to keep levels up that way--you would have to take it forever. Most think it is better to deal with the causes and correct the block in the methylation cycle.

    Best wishes,
    Sushi
     
  3. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    constipation..hmm. I remember one person who got severe constipation when trying this...wonder what is happening here.?
     
  4. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    I have had dreadful itching,lesions and constipation

    Constipation is one symptom of potassium deficiency (http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/potassium/) but can also be caused by a number of other things. But insomnia also can be a symptom of potassium deficiency. Do you have exhaustion or muscle weakness?

    What kind of lesions, and where?

    And how long have you been taking the supplements?

    But the doctor has also prescribed a glutathione nasal spray.

    It's almost impossible to find a perfect doctor. Some might know a lot of things but not be up on a few key things, but still be overall a decent doctor.

    Wondering if I should add SAMe--it's supposed to help reduce histamine.

    I would want to try to get a handle on the existing issues before trying a new supplement, since it can complicate the situation and you lose track of what might be causing what.
     
  5. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Whitmore;
    I'm not sure how often you're injecting B12, or how much of the folates you're taking daily, but could it be too much?
    It's really hard to find the right dosage. ( Some of the symptoms seem like inflammation to me.)

    Personally, when I take too many methyl donors, or too much folate, inflammation increases.

    I agree with everyone that potassium and magnesium may help constipation and insomnia.

    SAMe,( a powerful methyl donor), can be very stimulating, possibly worsening insomnia, so it may be better to wait.
     
  6. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    whitmore

    I've found that magneisum and vitaminc C can help with constipation. I take about 400-800mg a day of mag, and 1 gram of vitamin C 3x a day.

    Maybe add try a little flax seed fiber too sometime during the day..

    I wouldn't assume that because you are constipated, that things are not working for ya. May take a little experimenting, but keeping a healthy GI tract can make a huge difference.

    Good luck! hope you get feeling better soon. :)

    Edit: I;ve found the brain fog and stuff can be due to constipation and poor elimination
     
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    My suggestion would be to stop everything and let things settle down. Then study up on all the methylation protocols paying attention to the doses and forms of folate and B12. Also pay attention to co-factors. Some people need large amounts of potassium. I need large amounts of magnesium.

    You may have methyl trapping going on. When you have more folates than B12, this will create methyl trapping which will stop methylation. Or you simply may be doing too much, too fast, without the proper co-factors. Some people do ok with direct supplementation of glutathione and SAMe, some don't.

    Raising glutathione would be good for detox, but it won't help depression, at least not directly. You need to make methyl groups to make neurotransmitters and that's what helps depression. So that's back to folate and B12.

    As for your SNPS, you have two First Priority mutations which, if expressed, need to be treated first. You have COMT+/+ which can limit the amount of B12 you can take. You have BHMT mutations, so some TMG should be helpful for the secondary methylation pathway.

    Read/watch all the links in my signature and soon you'll know more than your doctor.
     
  8. whitmore

    whitmore

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    Maybe it is potassium that's lacking. When I mentioned it to the doctor he had never heard of it becoming depleted.
    I have ready about people supplementing on this website, but am confused by how little seems to be taken compared to the content of K rich foods. A baked potato contains close to 1000 mg. I eat a lot of high K foods already and would guess I consume at least 3000 mg a day. What good is a tablet of 125 mg going to do? I would think I would need to take much, much more. Can anyone explain?
     
  9. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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  10. whitmore

    whitmore

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    And how much do you take in a day, Crux?
     
  11. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Whitmore;

    I average about 2,500 mgs. daily in divided doses. It's a good idea to start with smaller amounts initially to see how you react. I take most in the morning, for constipation, and then the remainder in the evening for sleep. ( too much at one time can induce diarrhea. too much in the evening can make you pee alot.) Otherwise, it's been very helpful.
     
  12. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Some people find glutathione beneficial, but there is some concern that taking it regularly could send a message to your body to stop producing glutathione naturally. I'm not sure if there are any studies confirming this theory though. Besides methylation, one of the best ways to raise glutathione is by supporting the Krebs cycle, ATP, and mitochondrial function. There are various other supplements that can also help raise glutathione. A good place to start would be the basic vitamins and minerals. For example, B1, B2, B3, B5, and biotin are involved in the Krebs cycle, B2 and B3 help recycle glutathione, and selenium and molybdenum are cofactors in glutathione production. After that, lecithin, carnitine (unless you have hypothyroid), lipoic acid (unless you have mercury toxicity), and coenzyme q10/ubiquinol might be worth considering.

    Are you saying that your depression and insomnia is being caused by methylation or that's part of the reason you're doing methylation?

    Those are high doses for someone who is +/+ COMT. I'm not sure how much is converted into methylfolate, but Leucovorin is 25 mg of folinic acid. And how much methylfolate are you taking? Also, do you find the injections effective? The quality of methylcobalamin in injections can sometimes vary. I've heard from some people that they are very effective while others have said they weren't. If they are effective then you might be getting too much B12 and if they aren't you could experience methyl trapping as Caledonia suggested since you're taking a lot of folate.
     

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