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I do not notice improvement with anything. TL blocked. Acumen test.

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by José Segundo, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. José Segundo

    José Segundo

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    SPAIN
    Hi.

    Excuse my writing. I am using a translator.

    I have been sick since 2013 and I do not notice improvement with anything. I have tried the MyHill protocol and other things but nothing improves me.

    Could it be that the translocators are blocked? Result 13.3. Range 55-75.


    What should I do?

    Thank you.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. keenly

    keenly

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    Did you not have the tests to look at what is actually blocking them?

    You also need Magnesium for ADP to ATP.
     
  3. boolybooly

    boolybooly

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    Hi José, I am not an expert, I am a patient like you. I have also had these acumen tests.

    I discovered that I was reacting badly to "nightshade" foods and stopped eating them.

    When I stopped nightshades my TL scores normalised, but I needed a lot more calcium supplements for a while.

    Unfortunately my immune dysfunction did not decrease and I still get ME.

    I wrote a blog article about it.

    https://boolyblog.blogspot.co.uk/

    I dont know if this will work in your case. The sign for me was that I got mouth ulcers after eating nightshades.

    I hope it translates OK. :)
     
  4. José Segundo

    José Segundo

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    Thank you very much for your reply.

    I do not have the symptoms you say. My only digestive symptoms are very slow digestions. No matter what I eat. Digestive symptoms do not worry me too much.

    It would be great if someone directed me on my blocked TLs.

    Greetings.
     
  5. anni66

    anni66 mum to ME daughter

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    @Hip - can you help ?
     
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  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I have calculated your efficiency values for the 5 processes of energy metabolism function that are measured by the "ATP Profiles" test. These efficiency values are as follows:

    (1) ATP Concentration (the quantity of ATP present in the cell) = 0.89 = 89%
    (2) ATP Ratio (the fraction of ATP in the cell that is complexed with magnesium) = 0.95 = 95%
    (3) Oxidative Phosphorylation (efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation) = 0.94 = 94%
    (4) Translocator Protein Out (efficiency of ADP transport out from the cell) = 0.76 = 76%
    (5) Translocator Protein In (efficiency of ATP transport into the cell) = 0.24 = 24%

    For a description of these 5 processes of energy metabolism, see this post.

    José Segundo's ATP Profiles Test Result
    acumen.PNG

    Your overall mitochondrial energy score MES = 0.89 x 0.95 x 0.94 x 0.76 x 0.24 = 0.14 = 14%.

    So instead of the normal 100%, your mitochondrial energy score is down to just 14%.

    For more info about the interpretation of the "ATP Profiles" test, see this post.

    The test shows that largest blockage in your energy metabolism is the translocator protein (also called the adenine nucleotide translocator). The efficiency of your translocator protein in carrying the ATP manufactured in the mitochondria into the cell is only 24%, and the efficiency of your translocator protein in carrying the ADP from the cell and back into the mitochondria is 76%.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
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  7. boolybooly

    boolybooly

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    OK, how is your "Cell free DNA" test ? If you do not have high "Cell free DNA" then it wont be solanine activity.
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Have you tried treatments such as low-dose naltrexone (LDN), oxymatrine, or methylation?
     
  9. José Segundo

    José Segundo

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    Hi.

    I am very grateful for your answers.

    Before I got sick I did not know anything about medicine and now my cognitive problems do not allow me to learn. However in my short understanding of things I saw fit to perform the mitochondrial profile to objectify before me and before others what happens to me. I have taught it to several spanish doctors but none can understand. The doctor who will be a medical expert in my disability judgment will not use it unless I get an interpretive report, and I do not know who can do it.

    I attached the other tests I did in Acumen and others of Redlabs in case they can help me with the treatment. It's sad to say but now I can not deal with it. I am waiting for a disability due date and I will have to repeat at least the functional tests. In the short term, I can not allow improvement. However as soon as I do the tests for trial I will deal with what is needed: LDN, LDI, etc. If my judgment is good I hope to be able to move to a zone without pollution and to be able to release something those TLs.

    Reviewing the MyHill paper I think my score is 1.87 x 0.62 x 0.563 x 0.34 x 0.23 / 0.182 = 0.28
    Can be?

    What treatment can be good for me?

    Greetings.



    redlabs.PNG dna.PNG adducts.PNG b3.PNG lst.PNG sod.PNG tl.PNG
     
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  10. José Segundo

    José Segundo

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    Not yet, but I'm not afraid.
    I really want to.
    ;)
     
  11. Notjustfatigue

    Notjustfatigue

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    Hi José!!!

    I also do think so. In this paper (Chronic fatigue syndrome and mitochondrial dysfunction - S.Myhill, N.Booth, J.McLaren-Howard) where it is explained the formula, the authors say the following:

    "We have found it useful to calculate the product of the five factors, the overall mitochondrial energy-producing relative efficiency, and call it the Mitochondrial Energy Score. We just multiply the 5 factors together for each patient and each control. The minimum value for the controls is 0.182 fmol/cell. We have chosen this as our normalisation point so we divide all the Energy Scores (for both patients and controls) by this value. Thus all controls have Mitochondrial Energy Score ≥ 1.00."

    so, in this case, being the five factors ATP with excess Mg, Ratio ATP / ATP with Mg. added, ADP To ATP efficiency, excess ADP and ADP blocked and being your results the following:

    ATP with excess Mg: 1.87

    Ratio ATP / ATP Mg: 0.62

    ADP to ATP efficiency: 56.3 % = 0.563

    Excess ADP: 342 = 0.342

    ADP blocked: 234 = 0.234


    Your score should be:

    1.87 * 0.62 * 0.563 * 0.342 * 0.234 / 0.182 = 0.28


    Greetings mate,
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    No, the efficiency values are calculated by the ratio of your score, divided by the normal value (lowest normal range value).

    Efficiency value = your score / normal range value
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  13. Notjustfatigue

    Notjustfatigue

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    Anyway, in that case, the product of the efficiencies values should be dividides by 0.182 as they say this:

    "We just multiply the 5 factors together for each patient and each control. The minimum value for the controls is 0.182 fmol/cell. We have chosen this as our normalisation point so we divide all the Energy Scores (for both patients and controls) by this value. Thus all controls have Mitochondrial Energy Score ≥ 1.00."

    Could you please tell us where you read the efficiency values should be calculated this way?. I have looked over the paper again and i haven´t been able to find any reference to this.

    Greetings,
     
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I saw two "ATP Profiles" test results in which the efficiency values were calculated by Dr Myhill. One of those test results is here, the other is here. Dr Myhill writes by hand the efficiency values on the right side of the page.

    Looking at the figures that Dr Myhill wrote on the right side of the page, I was able to deduce how they are calculated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  15. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You could be right, I never noticed that statement in the paper before.

    So this would make Jose's mitochondrial energy score = 0.89 x 0.95 x 0.94 x 0.76 x 0.24 / 0.182 = 0.80 = 80%.


    But I am not sure about dividing by 0.182, because the mitochondrial energy score is a pure number (dimensionless), whereas the number 0.182 has the dimensions of fmol/cell.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  16. José Segundo

    José Segundo

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    @Hip You're very kind to take your time. The debate is interesting and we all learn.

    However I would like to know your opinion and the opinion of others regarding my future treatment. I am worried about my TL.

    Best regards.
     
  17. boolybooly

    boolybooly

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    Thanks for sharing your test information, I hope someone can help you.

    As you say, my experience may not apply as your "Cell free DNA" is mildly raised, for comparison mine was worse than that before giving up nightshades, 41.7µg/l in 2009 which came down to 11.7µg/l in 2015 after giving up nightshades.

    But it did fluctuate a lot and was sometimes near normal like yours even with nightshades. The problem with looking at fluctuating illness is you never know what part of the fluctuation you are looking at with a single blood test as it is just a snapshot. Your TL may not always be like that, and your Cell free DNA may vary too.

    Similarly I may be mistaken thinking that my TL scores improved due to giving up nightshades, as my last few tests may just have been in good patches by coincidence. Its hard to know, but I thought it was worth discussing rather than staying silent.

    Good luck :)
     
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    The treatment which Dr Myhill uses is a stone age diet plus supplements like D-ribose, magnesium, Q10, acetyl-L-carnitine, NAD and B12 injections.

    There is no specific treatment for reduced translocator protein functioning, as far as I am aware (although you can do the translocator protein studies test offered by Acumen Lab, which tells you what substances are blocking your translocator protein - EDIT: I see that you have already taken this).

    Also, note that the "ATP Profiles" test by Acumen Lab and the research behind it has not been validated and replicated, so we don't know for sure if factors such as reduced translocator protein functioning are the real cause of ME/CFS.

    You need to think of the "ATP Profiles" test as an experimental research test; it is not as yet a generally accepted medical test.



    Most ME/CFS specialist doctors approach the treatment of ME/CFS from the antiviral perspetive: they will test you for active viral infections, and treat you accordingly. ME/CFS is linked to chronic viral infections of coxsackievirus B, echovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 and cytomegalovirus, as well as other microbes.

    If you want general guidance to the treatments available for ME/CFS, see this document which I compiled:

    Chronic Fatigue Syndrome — A Roadmap for Testing and Treatment

    (There is a French version of the roadmap document here, but unfortunately I have no Spanish version at the moment, so you may want to use Google translation).
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
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  19. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    @Jose Segundo : do you work in agriculture? The labs show an exposure to Atrazine ...a herbicide.
     
  20. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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