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I can't believe how many problems have answers

Messages
43
Well, two days ago I decided to stop all the supplements until my new order came in. I knew I had had more energy since supplementing but Holy Cow!! Both days I felt like I was hit by a bus. I was dragging around like I had a piano tied to my butt. Yesterday I had more energy, but my brain was complete mush. It felt like the year I was diagnosed with ME/CFS. So I decided to start my supplements back up yesterday (except for the MeB12 and MeFolate) and today I feel much better. So something is agreeing with me. And so far on the supplements I have not had that shakey nervous feeling that may be associated with methyls with CBS (according to Yasko).

YAY!!
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
Or if you want to look at SNPs, according to Yasko, the type of B12 depends on your COMT V158M and VDR Taq: half way down this document, you will see a table showing how you can work out your best form of B12).

According to Dr. Yasko's document I should be taking HydroxyB12. I tried it and felt worse (more sluggish, mood wasn't as good.) I feel better when I take MethylB12 (Enymatic Therapy or Country Life).
 

Oci

Senior Member
Messages
261
It could be caused by tight pectoral muscles, rotating your shoulder blade (scapula) forward, and putting stress on your trapezius. Or it could be due to tight trapezius muscles. Have you been to a doctor or chiropractor to see if this is a physical problem, in need of a physical solution, such as physical therapy (stretching and strengthening) or chiropractic adjustments (a good chiropractor should also give you some basic stretching exercises)?

Yes, the head forward/poor posture that many of us have does cause tight pectorals and traps. Stretching and strengthening of opposing muscles does help. BUT...

I have discovered that these very tight muscles are also very connected to my use of Zopiclone, a Z-drug sleeping pill like Ambien.

These drugs are pseudo benzodiazepines and have a short half. This means that one can experience withdrawal daily!!! Certainly this is more of a problem for those of us who have taken them longer term...the GABA receptors have down-regulated. Zopiclone and Ambien are dangerous drugs! Only meant for very short term use.

I was normally taking 2/3 tablet at bedtime and 1/3 in middle of night when I awoke. Then some days I would sleep through the night (YAY!!!) but then would have withdrawal symptoms the next day ie high anxiety, tight muscles and nervous stomach. Tight muscles would even move from side-to-side making me think it was a neurological problem. And I've tested my theory and my muscle tension is definitely related to the sleeping pills. Benzos relax muscles.

I am very gradually tapering now as quick taper will cause protracted withdrawal symptoms. As long as I do it very slowly I am not having a lot of tight neck/shoulder muscles.

I read somewhere that 9 million people in the US regularly use Ambien!
 
Messages
43
These drugs are pseudo benzodiazepines and have a short half. This means that one can experience withdrawal daily!!! Certainly this is more of a problem for those of us who have taken them longer term...the GABA receptors have down-regulated. Zopiclone and Ambien are dangerous drugs! Only meant for very short term use.

I read somewhere that 9 million people in the US regularly use Ambien!

Yikes!!
 
Messages
43
Question about fingernails. I thought they were dead (ie. the supplements I am taking now won't affect the nails already there). But I noticed while I was off of my vitamins for 2 days they got brittle and started chipping and then today (two days after being on the vitamins again) they are not brittle. How does that work??
 
Messages
43
The CBS SNPs tested have very little impact or none at all. They do not cause problems.

We are so young in the process of identifying SNPs that relate to disease that we have no way of knowing what future studies will show.


How so? Yasko's belief is that VDR and COMT are relevant to methylation because they might effect need for methyl donors or intolerance of them. But there's no evidence supporting her belief, and anectdotal data suggests that those VDR and COMT SNPs do not accurately predict a reaction to methyl donors.

Well she predicted my reaction. I had to take an anti-anxiety pill for the first time in a year after starting Meb12 and MeFolate. I don't know if she's right but when a response is predicted out of the millions of possibilities then I start listening. It doesn't mean she is right, but it does mean that I will follow the protocol to see how it goes.


Those VDR and CBS SNPs do pretty much nothing, so wouldn't be affecting your dopamine levels (or anything else, really). It would be far more cost-effective to test blood dopamine levels before starting on a lengthy and over-priced treatment for a problem which might not exist at all. Most lab services offer a catecholamine panel which includes dopamine.

I read every study that mentioned CBS C699T and not one of them mentioned dopamine levels in relation to the snp and methylation. I don't know a lot about snps and what their relationship with health is, but I do know logic and I am pretty sure you cannot prove a negative. So ... you don't think that CBS has any affect on health, and you want to protect people from quack doctors, I get it. But we are so early in the battle to make medicine personal that I think there is not enough knowledge to say anything with total certainty.


+/- would be the most common and normal/balanced version. Doesn't make sense to "treat it".

Unfortunately the concept of methylation has been rather badly abused to support the use of elaborate protocols with no foundation in science or reality. I'd suggest ignoring anything which can be traced back to Yasko, since her claims can be proven wrong or unsubstantiated more often that not.

I have read all of the articles listed on snpedia claiming Yasko is a quack and they only mention her in passing and then not even mentioning her genetic work. So I did a google search of "Yasko quack". The one I did read that talked at length about Yasko, said that she prescribes vitamins with no scientific basis. Well ya, the science of treating your genetics hasn't even gotten started. So no one has any treatment for a SNP yet, right?

I'm not saying she's right but I am willing to give her protocol a ride even though I don't know if it will work. But here is what I do know:

- I have sulfa drug allergies
- I can get extremely ill on luncheon meat and other things with sulfites (but not always)
- My urine has always smelled really strong (like ammonia). Like spray the room after I go strong.
- I have this pain in my back between the shoulder blades which causes me great discomfort. When I am in a flare I can increase the pain by eating beef and I can stop the pain by fasting for 3 days.
- When I was on meb12 and mefolate and woke up with the jittery feeling and started taking my anti-anxiety drugs (after being off for a year or so). Yasko predicted that reaction with my CBS allele.

These are only my realities and they do not prove the science in any way. But I have been noticing that many of the studies that I have been reading on different snps basically are data to associate a specific disease to a specific snp. It is more formal than Yasko's for sure, but she noticed a trend and made a treatment decision based on that trend. If you know of a study that proves that a CBS snp does not cause high levels of ammonia, I will drop my protein-limiting diet (which I have not had the energy to start yet) in a hearbeat.

Maybe I am wrong and maybe not. I appreciate your response and have noticed that you are very helpful to folks on this board and I thank you.
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
We are so young in the process of identifying SNPs that relate to disease that we have no way of knowing what future studies will show.
Conversely, we can't just make random guesses as to what they will show. Most SNPs are shown to have no impact, so it isn't logical to guess that one does have an impact simply due to a lack of research.

I don't know a lot about snps and what their relationship with health is, but I do know logic and I am pretty sure you cannot prove a negative.
You also cannot assume a positive in the lack of appropriate research. That would be guessing, not science.

Yasko predicted that reaction with my CBS allele.
Most people have your CBS allele. Most people do not have your problems with sulfur. These are two unrelated concepts where some people will have both the allele and the sulfur problem. There are millions of other extremely common versions SNPs which could just as easily be randomly blamed for sulfur problems.

If you know of a study that proves that a CBS snp does not cause high levels of ammonia, I will drop my protein-limiting diet (which I have not had the energy to start yet) in a hearbeat.
In the case of CBS C699T there is research showing that the +/+ version has mild health benefits due to decreased risk of diseases associated with homocysteine. And the research shows that the effect size of the alleles is quite tiny.
 
Messages
43
Conversely, we can't just make random guesses as to what they will show. Most SNPs are shown to have no impact, so it isn't logical to guess that one does have an impact simply due to a lack of research.


You also cannot assume a positive in the lack of appropriate research. That would be guessing, not science.


Most people have your CBS allele. Most people do not have your problems with sulfur. These are two unrelated concepts where some people will have both the allele and the sulfur problem. There are millions of other extremely common versions SNPs which could just as easily be randomly blamed for sulfur problems.


In the case of CBS C699T there is research showing that the +/+ version has mild health benefits due to decreased risk of diseases associated with homocysteine. And the research shows that the effect size of the alleles is quite tiny.

I agree with all of that. I am giving it a chance because we don't know and she nailed her prediction on my reaction. I'm not saying she is right and I don't admire her selling desperate parents lots of vitamins, but you don't know she is wrong either.
 

panckage

Senior Member
Messages
777
Location
Vancouver, BC
The thing is that the pain doesn't seem to be physical. In that I can stop it by fasting and I can trigger it (in a flare) by eating beef.
I have something like this. When I have IBS symptoms my pain flares up, especially in my joints and feet. OTOH when I have no IBS symptoms (when I don't eat food that I am intolerant too) most of the pain goes away. There's definitely a relationship to food for me
 
Messages
43
I have something like this. When I have IBS symptoms my pain flares up, especially in my joints and feet. OTOH when I have no IBS symptoms (when I don't eat food that I am intolerant too) most of the pain goes away. There's definitely a relationship to food for me

I just realized that the pain in my feet and knees was caused by my diet coke addiction. I have no idea why. But that is done. I had gone off diet coke in January as part of a whole 30 diet. And I would sprint up the stairs!!! I had also lost 10 lbs so I thought it was the weight. But when I started drinking diet coke in March it came back but I hadn't gained back the weight. So I've tested it a few times and diet coke==ankle and knee pain.

Not saying yours is but mine was.