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I cannot sleep at all

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by freshveggies, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    sleep is not barely there. I am thinking of dropping the xanax and just doing glycine. Thanks for the suggestions. I tried klonopen---and didn't like it . I felt like my bed dropped dow 100 feet when it hit my brain. Never took it again.
     
  2. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I took 1mg xanax and 12.5mg seroquel at 7:45 and was awake at 10:00. I wonder if the xanax is not working. I think I took 1/2 xanax at 10:00 and 4000mg glycine. glycine was relaxing. Early in the morning --3:30 took 6,000mg glycine. I didn't feel that I got much sleep. I wonder if I should do seroquel and glycine and no xananx?
     
  3. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    What dose of Klonopin were you on? Just curious also what you mean by "I felt like my bed dropped dow(n) 100 feet when it hit my brain"? Sounds like you got way too large a dose.

    Personally Ativan and Xanax are such terrible options for sleep relative to properly dose Klonopin I cannot even begin to explain why without my blood pressure going off, sorry. The short half-lives of Ativan and Xanax ultimately make them unusable for sleep and dreaded tolerance will come in hurry.

    The serotonin prioritization effects of Klonopin (not the GABA activation) never develop tolerance. Your overtly strong negative reaction to Klonopin may say something very important about your neurochemistry. But you need a good doctor to figure that puzzle out.
     
  4. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I was on .5 klonopin and suppose to take 1/2 at bedtime. I only took it one night. Probably not a large dose.

    I tried 10g glycine last night and didn't knock me out. I was hoping. I had to pee so much all night. I wonder if it was the glycine doing that?

    Could there be a problem with some of these drugs with me having a MAO A+/+ and that it does not break down serotonin properly?
     
  5. tatt

    tatt

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    sorry I haven't read 6 pages. Strikes me you are on a lot of supplements and some of those may adversely affect sleep, I haven't looked them all up.

    One thing you aren't taking is vitamin D. See this article from a neurologist on why it may be important http://drgominak.com/vitamin-d Can only say that when I had vit D tested it was low, my sleep improved when I took supplements.

    Calcium at night may help sleep, hence the traditional warm milk at bedtime. A warm epsom salts bath early evening will relax you. If you fall asleep OK but then wake consider reflux as a possible cause or sleep apnoea if you need to pee a lot at night.
     
  6. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Thanks for your thoughts. I have since quit most of the supplements. I taking vitamin D, forgot it in the list, but part of the 6 pages. I should be getting my levels back soon. I was taking 10,000-15,000, now I am taking 5000-7000. Probably is not enough to raise it. I also take 12,500-25000 ius of A a day as that is very low. I think I put the same link you put in on vit D in this thread. I watched her video series on youtube. Very good info.

    I have read the calcium at night but haven't tried yet.

    Doing a little better the last 2 days. I don't seem to do to well to any drugs. Muscle relaxers seem ok as does unisom.
     
  7. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Make sure when you get your vitamin D levels tested to also get the 1,25 calcitriol form of vitamin D tested. If that is imbalanced (i.e. too high relative to the inactive 25 OH form then you may have to be wary about high vitamin D).

    Here is a paper that outlines the issues involved with an imbalanced active to inactive vitamin D ratio.
    http://autoimmunityresearch.org/preprints/ProalAnnals2009Preprint.pdf

    This is from Marshall et al and I don't agree with some of their conjectures nor their proposed treatment but it is something to watch out for. With my autoimmune disease going on 50 K IU vitamin D 3 days for week for 10 weeks was absolutely murderous to me. It go my inactive 25 OH levels up to 88 but it put my active 1,25 over the top of the range. It was not a good time trust me.
     
    penny likes this.
  8. Abha

    Abha Abha

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    Hi freshveggies...sorry to hear about your problems(re sleep etc)...Re your health I would advise you to listen to Dr Mercola's interview of Dr Natasha Campbell Mc Bride(Russia/London)2 hrs 26 mins? in length...Here is the link...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJkS3ZBqos..
    Dr Natasha has also written many books that you may find helpful.I listened to the full interview and I believe what she states could help many of us....and eventually our sleep too.In the past I had to take lots of medications for sleep but in the end they seemed to do more harm than good...That's my experience!
     
  9. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Read the paper. Do we just watch to have them both in range or is there a ratio between the two? If we have a higher 1,25 and lower 25 OH. What do we do? Just had D tested, but don't have it back. I don't think they tested 1,25 this time. I will have to re-do it.

    Finally found my test from Jan, 1,25 was 63 and 25 OH was 37. This was without supplementation. About 8 months before it was 45 for each of them. I wonder if the methylation supplements did this or vitamin A? It will be interesting to see what the levels are now. Maybe I cannot take Vit D? If my 25OH is lower than the 1,25 do you think it is just best to wait on the vitamin d?
     
  10. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    I think an imbalanced ratio in favor of 1,25 suggests something else is wrong in the immune system. Kind of what I have been talking about in some other posts (chronic infection, autoimmune, etc.). If you have such a ratio, then the core problem has to be diagnosed and addressed. Tossing high vitamin D at it will not help. If your ratio is ok (say 1:1 or less) then you don't have to worry about that and can take vitamin D to boost things.

    My concern is you take pretty large levels of vitamin D and don't see the 25 OH go up much. That could mean it is converting overly efficiently to 1,25 calcitriol. This would then imply and underlying immune system dysregulation. Feeding a lot more vitamin D will only exacerbate the inhibition of thyroid, glucocorticoid, and adrogenic receptors by 1,25 OH blockade. Meanwhile the immune dysregulation will correlate with high norepinephrine releases and other hormone / neurotransmitter imbalances as your sympathetic nervous system is triggered. One of the results would be bad insomnia.

    That being said hopefully your ratio is fine and you don't have to worry about that and can move forward with other approaches. Good luck and God Bless!
     
  11. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Now I am understanding.. I have backed down to 5,000 per day for the last 10 or so days. I checked my Jan 2013 levels and the 25 OH was 37 and the 1,25 was 63. That is without any supplementation. I wonder if tanning could bring this in balance? Any recommendations? Should I quit the 5000?

    Thank you.
     
  12. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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  13. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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  14. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    That is very possible. I am thinking taking Vitamin A has not been good even when my labs showed me low out of range. This might have caused my decline. I started high doses of A in Sept/Oct and have declined since then.
    Too much A does this?
    Symptoms of vitamin A toxicity include joint
    pain, decalcification, and fragility of bone.
    Increased intracranial pressure produces pseudo
    brain tumor symptoms. Red blood cells lose
    hemoglobin, and bleeding can occur easily.
    Nervous system symptoms include irritability,
    restlessness, fatigue, anorexia, and muscle
    weakness. Rashes may develop on the skin,
    causing dryness and peeling along with hair loss.
    The lips may also become scaly. The spleen and
    liver enlarge and jaundice may develop.6
    Symptoms of toxicity subside with reduced
    intake of the vitamin.

    So I have been eating the same but I am loosing muscle and I couldn't figure out why. Also my need for estrogen and progesterone has changed dramatically. I need so much more. I have some of the other symptoms too.

    Here is research paper on Vitamin A. http://www.traceelements.com/Docs/The Nutritional Relationships of Vitamin A.pdf

    I would like more information too. But for now. I am quitting vitamin A.
     
  15. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    this article supports what you wrote: https://chronicillnessrecovery.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=176

    Did you see my levels above? I was not supplementing any D at the time. I should get my new levels back any day. This is hard to understand when you see a neuro doctor saying you need 25 oh between 60-80 to sleep well. I still think the Vit A might have driven the 1,25 too high. I might be ok when that comes down and then supplement or get sun.

    My Lyme might be causing the High 1,25-----------
     
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Freshvedggies,

    I can't find where you describe your extreme reaction to Klonopin. Can you describe it and the symptoms? I know of something that MAY be significant. No guarantees.
     
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Freshveggies,

    I am loosing muscle and I couldn't figure out why

    Well, for me it came down to the Deadlock Quartet to reverse my muscle loss quite dramatically.
     
  18. Lisa Marie

    Lisa Marie

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    If I were you I would go to an acupuncturist and get some acupuncture and Chinese herbs. When I was at the worst with my sleep this is what helped me the most. Chinese herbs work so much better than medications without the side effects. I was like you--trying all the supplements, different meds and I couldn't tolerate anything. Chinese medicine may not solve all your problems, but it will get you to a more stable place for further exploration.
    Lisa Marie
     
  19. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    I've recently added Molybdenum and Boron right before bedtime and it is helping me sleep through the night. In the morning I'm taking Coral Calcium (power form with nothing else added) and Magnesium Glycinate.

    I probably also need to look into adding D3 but I think I have shy'd away from it is because I am not getting enough co-factors (K2, Boron, Zinc and Magnesium). D3 has been one of the few things besides B6 or P5P that promotes dreaming for me.

    Other bedtime supps are E-complex from MRM, Beta Care-All and Fish Oil.
     
  20. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Hi Fredd, I missed your post. My reaction to Klonopin. Just shortly after I took it, I felt like the bed dropped down about 100 feet from me and then I was wired. Any thoughts? Thank you.
     

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