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I cannot sleep at all

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by freshveggies, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Shoesies

    Shoesies Senior Member

    From someone who understands no sleep ((((freshviggies))))
  2. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Sorry you aren't sleeping either. I guess I will do the drugs. Hopefully he doesn't make me suffer through 7 days of trazodone. My husband said xanax tonight for some sleep. Will see the doctor tomorrow. He thinks I could get used to the trazodone, but it didn't even make me drowsy, just relaxed.
  3. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I really don't know. I am only taking like 2000-3000 several times a week and that alone affects me. Even doses as low as 400 have a noticeable effect on me. I do know that I had terrible sleep with benzos.
  4. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Does that mean that vitamin D affects your sleep in a negative way?

    If so, I was thinking the same thing. but I see that so many of my vital nutrients are depleted and I feel that I have to get them back. Wasn't necessarily working for me not taking them either.
  5. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    Sleep problems can have so many causes. But if someone wakes repeatedly through the night, it's a good idea to have a sleep study to rule out apnea. There's also a simpler in-home test that measures apnea events and O2 levels only, not brainwaves or movement disorders.

    My sleep problem is really complicated, but I got nowhere with constant awakenings through the night until I got apnea treatment. I wear a dental device instead of using CPAP.

    I was surprised I had apnea given that I'm thin and didn't snore, but anyone can have it. Apnea also gets more common as people reach middle age and older because throat structures can get flabby. I did NOT enjoy hearing that from my ENT.
  6. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    It has crossed my mind. A person can also have UARS which some sleep labs don't count but you do stop breathing. I might be going to a sleep study. We shall see.
  7. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Trazodone never helped me sleep. I did a trial years ago, at the insistence of my doctor. Xanax is not usually a long term solution as the body builds a tolerance too quickly. Glad it helped for a couple of nights.

    Have you had a sleep study done? The doctors who evaluate the sleep studies can sometimes make helpful suggestions for medication combinations that help. It is always a matter of trial and error with each individual.

    Oops. Thought I was at the end of the thread, but it was page 4. I'm not crazy, really.
  8. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Klonopin is far superior to Xanax. Not all benzodiazepenes are the same. Klonopin's main advantage for sleep is that is the only benzo that downregulates the excitatory 5ht receptors without touching the inhibitory ones. Combine it with something like 5htp at bedtime = sleep. The question of course is balance and do you really want to be on something that may take a long time to get off of. On the other hand Klonopin is one of the easiest benzos to get off of. Ativan and Xanax on the other hand are pretty evil drugs in my opinion if used in any sufficient quantity.

    Is your main problem falling asleep or maintaining sleep? Or both?
    If it is falling asleep unless you have hideous overt apnea (i.e. choking out of the gate) that is not going to explain the why you can't fall asleep part of the equation.

    On another note have your ever tried large amounts of glycine powder? That is quite a hammer to induce sleep. You may wake up in four hours but for some people (not all) it will force you to sleep.

    One last possibility is niacinamide or niacin. If you are being plague by too many methyl donors, they are the best way to clean them up. Good luck.
  9. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Well yes and no. What I meant was vitamin D has been a huge help, the only thing really to help my sleep and bring my circadian rhythm to a much more normal point.I used to fall asleep in the morning after being up all night. With vitamin D I fall asleep at night and have a much much more normal sleep pattern. It's made a tremendous difference in my sleep and my life.

    However until I added in all of vitamin D's cofactors I did have problems taking vitamin D. Before adding in cofactors it may have affected my sleep negatively due to lack of magnesium and other cofactors. Now I make sure to take vits. K, zinc, A (beta carotene and mixed cartenoids), Magnesium, and will soon be trying Boron. Are you taking the cofactors in adequate amounts? Vitamins K, zinc, and magnesium made a huge difference for me in being able to tolerate D. Can't remember if I mentioned in my last post or not but benzos were awful for my sleep. It wasn't till I got off them that I was able to normalize my sleep pattern. They also had a terrible effect on my mood.
  10. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I am hoping that xanax will last longer as I know someone has taken it for 30 years an no tolerance build up. I will be getting a sleep study to hopefully find something to help.
  11. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I am interested in the amounts of teh co-factors. I have a 150mcg K, 12,400 A and 15mg zinc. My A is very low. The biotics brand is finally working for me. If I need a lower dose, what brand of A is absorbable. I was taking douglas and I never absorbed it. I play with magnesium. I think magnesium malate is suppose to be good but I am taking 300mg of magnesium citrate.
  12. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    ++

    I have trouble both falling and staying asleep. I think it might be Lyme acting up again. Probably never fully treated. I had just got the glycine powder but haven't tried it. Was too broken anymore and needed drugs. My family stepped in and said drugs for me. I am so glad as I was at my breaking point. I am off all methyls except for 1000 mb12.

    If I do get a point to try glycine would you recommend 2000mg as a starting point?
  13. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Well I think it is probably very individual. For example I take a lot less vitamin D than you do and it still has a strong effect on me. But just for something to go on, my doses and brands are below and I have been very happy with all of these products so far. I always start low, by either emptying out part of a capsule or by taking something only every few days, when I first start a new supplement and I only start one new thing at a time.

    ZINC: Source naturals zinc lozenge 23 mg plus 1-2 zinc picolinate, 15 mg each. I will probably switch the brand of the zinc capsule soon and try Twinlab, I like that brand. Right now I use Thorne brand and it seems fine. I really like the lozenges best but they may not be good for my teeth.

    MAG: Bluebonnet chelated magnesium, 200 or less per day (all I can tolerate by stomach) plus a ton of magnesium spray, Ancient Minerals

    VIT K: Carlson vitamin k2, 5 mg

    VIT. A: Solgar beta carotene 10,000 but I plan to try mixed cartenoids by Bluebonnet next after this bottle is out

    VIT. D: My vitamin d is Twinlab dry vitamin d but I am also going to start trying another brand that comes in higher doses, it's one with olive oil in it by Jarrow

    BORON: I just ordered some by Twinlab, haven't tried it yet I think it's 3 mg

    I also take dry vitamin e every few days, Solaray, 200
    I also take vitamin c every few days
    I also take a tiny bit of calcium occasionally

    I hope you have some luck very soon.
  14. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    It varies from person to person. If you are on drugs then I would use smaller amounts of glycine (lie 2-4 grams at bed time). If you were taking nothing I would try 8 grams even more. For a long time I took 14-16 grams at bed time with no issues except it probably made me wake up a bit sooner than I wanted too (i.e. after 5 hours). But boy it knocked me out.
    Be careful mixing it with the drugs though. It is an amino acid but you don't want too much inhibition going on when you sleep.
  15. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    THanks. Any special brand?
  16. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    THank you. I was taking the carlson A ---not douglas and my labs were really low.
  17. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Seattle
    Is this the Raw Pituitary you're taking? I like what I see -- the testimonials are impressive -- but, argh, it has folic acid in it... :(
  18. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Glad you're getting a sleep study. Xanax may work for a while, but it has a shorter half-life than klonopin which causes tolerance to build up faster and may cause you to sleep for a shorter period of time. The longest acting benzo is actually valium, but for ME, klonopin has helped more because of the ability to lessen excito-toxicity. It does not work for sleep for me, just helps with neuro symptoms.

    All of this is very individual and I'm glad your family is helping you. There comes a time when you just need someone else to help you through the wilderness that is ME.
  19. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    I prefer the Source Naturals Glycine powder or the Carlson glycine powder. Life Extension may be ok as well.
    The Now Foods one did not work for me at all (ick).
  20. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I really like LifeExtension Glycine, 1000 MG. I take three a night. I order it from Amazon.

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