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I cannot sleep at all

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by freshveggies, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I just cannot sleep. I rarely get drowsy at night and just don't fall asleep. If I do sleep, it might be for 3 hours then I can't go back to sleep.

    I take these supplements
    breakfast,
    hydroxy b12 1000
    mb12 2000
    b-complex
    ox bile
    enzyme
    molybdenum
    1/2 yucca
    1/2 tsp salt
    vitamin E
    selenium
    acetly L carnitinie
    probiotic
    vit A
    Vit 3 10,000 my level is in the 30's
    can take 200-400 methyfolate every other day. Only took it yesterday
    Sea Cure 1 cap 2 x day between meals-have not started
    Lithium 50mcg
    iodine 1/8th a drop of 2% solution
    was trying d-ribose none today
    Potassium 400-700mg

    Lunch
    Potassium 400-700
    enzyme

    2:30
    1/2 tsp salt
    sometimes gaba

    evening gaba
    bed --valerian, kava, unisom,
    have tried melatonin,
    Unisom doesn't seem to work
    I have tried sleep meds like ambien, lunesta, prazosin, trazedone, amyltripdine? Nothing has worked.

    I am beside myself --barely functioning --don't know where to turn. Would dermal screening tell me what would help me? I don't know what is broken.

    I eat almost the same stuff each day because I dont' really know what to eat anymore since I learned my snips.
    I eat sardines for breakfast
    lunch --apple, bacon nitrate free, coconut oil, sometimes some macadamia nuts or almonds.
    dinner - apple, ghee, sometimes some meat or 2 pieces of bacon.

    Any suggestions would be welcome.
     
  2. Hugocfs

    Hugocfs Senior Member

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    Regarding the melatonin, what was the doseage you tried? Sometimes higher doses don't work. If you haven't already, try 300 to 500 mcg just prior to bed time. Try for at least a month before giving up on it. No television for at least an hour before you want to fall asleep. Stay away from the benzos(klonopin, etc.) and z-drugs (ambien, etc) if at all possible. They can be addicting and very hard to get off of. Have you tried remeron yet? It works well for me. Taper slowly onto it and don't go too high because of the potential side effects. I feel for you. I have been there and done that. It is not fun.
     
  3. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    it was 3mg sublingual. They have a 1mg one that I can get. Or I might have some liquid where I can go lower on the melatonin. Yeh, I thougth ambien was wicked stuff. I have not tried remeron yet. What about glycine?
     
  4. Hugocfs

    Hugocfs Senior Member

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    I don't know about glycine. If you are in the States, Vitamin World has 200 mcg tablets at a reasonable price. I take two per night. About three weeks ago, I thought I didn't need melatonin any longer. I was back on it within a week. It really does help me.
     
  5. penny

    penny Senior Member

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    This isn't really a suggestion but have you read anything at this blog? http://nopostergirl.com/?s=insomnia
    She has/had what she called "weapons grade insomnia" and I believe has had some improvement. I don't think there was any magic bullet, but there might be something useful in there.

    It sounds like you're insomnia is much worse than mine was, and it sounds like you don't respond as well to medications, so I doubt this will help but just in case... for me a combo of baclofen and ambien helped improve my sleep, before I added the baclofen: 10mg of ambien would give me a restless half nights sleep (and then my 'normal' disrupted misery). After adding baclofen I was able to reduce the ambien (2.5-5mg) and slept better with less pain and awakenings. Again, I doubt this will help but JIK.

    And lots of sympathy, sleep deprivation is torture.
     
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Just my two cents, but protein can keep people awake -- also too much protein will stimulate cortisol secretion and possible adrenal burnout.

    Is there a reason why you're not eating any carbs? Adding some carbs may help you sleep better.

    I also second the glycine suggestion (helps calm, helps detox salicylates in spices, almonds, etc).
     
    Victronix and penny like this.
  7. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I eat only a little bit of protein at dinner --5:30pm around 3 oz? I have also tried eating no protein for dinner too. I forgot to add that I eat 2 apples a day. One for lunch and one for dinner. Should I be eating more? How much glycine should I take and what time should I take it? I do best if I can get to sleep by 9:30pm.
     
  8. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I will take a look at this site. Thank you. Yes, I feel tortured. Thinking of going to the hospital and having them hook me up to something to put me to sleep. Probably isn't possible. I feel so lost and hopeless at this point. It started a year and a half ago. I am really struggling.
     
  9. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    freshveggies, I know how you feel. Have you considered reducing some your supplements to see if that helps? How much l acetyl carnitine are you taking? When I was taking it (500mg/day) I had to stop because it was making me jittery and restless. Do you have hypothyroid? If you do, l acetyl carnitine will compromise thyroid function which can cause insomnia. When we take a lot of supplements for long periods of time it can affect us negatively. Something to consider. I hope you can find relief soon.
     
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    One thing you have not checked is your PUFA (polyunsaturated fatty acids) levels. Most of us have too much omega-6 activity (not always levels) and sleep too much, if its too low you will have trouble sleeping or cannot sleep at all. Does evening primrose oil (low dose) help?

    PGD2 is essential for sleep, its what actually shuts the brain down, and its made from omega-6 fats.
     
    cph13 likes this.
  11. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Both B complex and acetyl carnitine make me feel wired. When I had my worst insomnia, I had to use a combination of medications to get ANY sleep. I used Ambien and the lowest dose of Remeron together. It worked. Would give me 6-8 hrs. of steady sleep and I did not feel drugged the next day.

    I have not found Ambien to be that addictive. I can go on and off of it with just a little adjustment. Hope you find something that helps. I so look forward to sleep as time away from this disease. When I don't get any sleep, I start feeling totally exasperated.
     
    penny likes this.
  12. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Time release melatonin can help, 5-10mg. For severe insomnia, I'd try seroquel 12.5-25mg every other night, or every night if needed, just to get some sleep under my belt while trying to get back on track. Benzos can help in the short term with low risk of addiction, but if there's no resolution in sight, it's probably better to take the low-dose seroquel. If benzos help, passionflower herb can sometimes be enough without taking a benzo, as it hits many of the same receptors. Neurontin/gabapentin helps some people. Check cortisol levels, too - too low or high can both disrupt sleep rhythm. You might be able to do a sleep study at home, it doesn't give as much info as going to a clinic, but at least it will most likely detect (or rule out) an apnea issue. It's also best to try to avoid tv, computer monitors, or anything like that that pumps artificial light into your brain a couple hours before bed, and wear earplugs if you can if there's any sounds around at all - they can make more difference than you might expect.
     
  13. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Freshveges, what was your sleep like before you took all these supplements?

    (and what is your sleep like now if you stop?)
     
  14. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    This is just my two cents, I'm not a doctor, just a patient. I had terrible anxiety, insomnia, agitation, restlessness about 2 years ago when I first started the methylation protocol. (I had most of those issues before then too, but they escalated when I started dealing with methylation.) The consensus back then was that I was given waaaaaay too many methylation-related supplements by my then doctor, and that makes some sense.

    But I was also eating a lot of high salicylate foods -- which interfere with methylation and can cause many of the symptoms above and worse -- almost like you feel like you're going to go crazy. So I googled more info on them, and then cut back on as many as possible, replacing them with lower-sal vegetables, etc.

    That being said, it wasn't until the 2nd half of 2012 that I started to have more periods of calm, and could sleep better at night -- and that's (I think) due to several things: adding the glycine (which comes in capsules or a powder and is calming), also inositol powder from time to time -- it really helped me sleep, but I think it can interfere with zinc/copper ratios, so I'm backing off on that, and taking vitamin D (as you're doing) early in the morning, or better, trying to get some sunlight (hard this time of year in Seattle!) early in the am.

    But also a big part of my improvement (or stabilization) was due to adding more carbohydrates to my meals to help my poor adrenals calm down. It doesn't look to me like you're eating very much at all, but perhaps you're trying to lose weight? I was, and am skinny, but 2 years ago I lost 12 lbs in 6 months -- got down to 153lbs (at 6' 2") because my cortisol was high at the wrong times, and low in the am. It's my understanding that if the body doesn't have enough glycogen stores (in the liver), then a signal is sent to the adrenals, which then sends out cortisol to break down protein (muscle) and/or fat to raise glucose to replenish glycogen stores. I may not have explained that correctly...Alex would know better if I haven't -- but all I can say is I have stabilized, and feel more calm overall, and a little stronger too. My glycogen stores were probably completely depleted, so my body used my own muscle and fat for fuel. Not good...

    Apples -- I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that the carbs from apples are in the form of fructose, something that may help in the mornings, but might keep you awake at night. Personally, I would go for cooked sweet potatoes, or regular potatoes, or add some rice to your evening meal, if not your other meals.

    From Dr. Lam's website (a doc who specializes in adrenal burnout/fatigue):

    Myth #18: Eliminating carbohydrates will help Adrenal Fatigue.
    While refined carbohydrates have a tendency to affect the metabolism and often contribute to worsening Adrenal Fatigue, some carbohydrates are necessary for maintaining proper blood sugar balance.Total avoidance of carbohydrates is not a good idea unless under professional guidance."


    But of course we're all different, so what works for one person may not work for another. Good luck!
     
    penny likes this.
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Salicylates can induce insomnia, they block the enzymes that process omega-6 fats into PGD2, which in turn is what makes the brain sleep.
     
  16. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I do take cytomel. I just had read about acetyl carnitine and thyroid. I will quit that now and see how I do. I got 5 hours last night with a muscle relaxer.
     
  17. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    My test for this was 2 to 2 so I quit any omega 3 supplements. I will add in evening primrose oil. What time of the day do I take this?
     
  18. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I am going to investigate the drugs listed in the blog post above. That girls journey about insomnia hits home. It was in Jan 2007 when I quit sleeping overnight. Just happened. I went 2 weeks with no sleep and finally started unisom. Then it got to be no sleep in the fall of 2011 and that is where I am at. Seems to be a loss of mitochindra and brain living on adrenaline. I need to read the post some more today.
     
  19. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Thanks. I shut down all electronics around 6:30 and wear blue blocker sunglasses. I might have tried neurontin or it was recommended. I might try the passion flower. I will look in to seoquel. I am just not familiar with drugs. I know the ones I have tried were bad.
     
  20. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Not tyring to lose weight, but I gain weight over night eating sweet potatoes. I will try rice. I am very confused about food. I have been on too many diets, then told to go low sulfur now I feel like I can't eat anything. I will look up salicytes and see what foods those are. I really want to know what green vegetables I can eat.
     

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