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I am undergoing ozone therapy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by gracie, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Kiwi Jack

    Kiwi Jack

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    $40 ozone generators on eBay don't work for therapeutic purposes. I have one. The key to ozone therapy is combining 100% oxygen. Ozone generators create a single molecule of oxygen, it's what they do, combined with oxygen creates O3 or 3 combined oxygen molecules. When combined with pure 100% oxygen the percentage output of ozone gas is still very low, something like 2-3%, low but still effective. So if you combined it with ambient air which is 20% oxygen you would get an output concentration of ozone of .4% to .6% or even less because it's very unstable, so it's just not an effective therapeutic dose. The cheap eBay generators might in fact make good ozone, I don't know, but they don't provide the facility or connections to combine it with 100% oxygen, they're just to low a concentration and not set up for therapeutic purposes.

    Ozone for therapy purposes are measured in gamma concentrations and you can find them in concentrations of 50-70 gamma but I've seen them higher. I use 30-40 gamma for most of my home therapy purposes. I would be careful anyone trying to suggest that these cheaper ozone generators do anything other than provide a disinfectant effect, they are not for therapeutic use. This is very well documented in every reference to the therapeutic use of ozone.

    You need to study air embolisms in context to pure oxygen combined with ozone, it's not the same as you have displayed above. Nitrogen is the main problem when injecting ambient air into the vein, which is not the case here.

    Rectal insufflations are a very popular method of exposing the body to hundreds of different therapies and has used for hundreds of years. Good for you for finding some obscure study not pertaining to human beings. Rectal insufflations are probably the most popular method for people using home ozone therapy. It's easy and safe to administer.

    I've read dozens of books and articles, I work with 2 GPs who have studied ozone in Europe in med school and treat patients daily. I belong to several closed Facebook groups with thousands of other people who have read dozens of books and articles and use ozone therapy regularly at home and in clinics. Using ozone generators that don't combine with 100% oxygen for therapy purposes is unanimously panned.

    I use various forums like these to find new ideas to diagnose and tread problems I've had for 15 years where the traditional medical and science establishment have failed me. I find them invaluable and I am very thankful.

    But not every therapy works for ever person in the same manner. One mans bread is another man's poison. So I caution people to do their own research, weigh their own options, have an open mind, turn yourself into your own research scientist, be your own Dr, and you can do it because they are only humans with a curious mind. Don't seek answers in science that are 100% correct, there are always variables, it's about a risk to reward ratio, a percentage of success. If it has a better than 50% chance of working, but the risk is lower and acceptable, then it's worth a try. Be cautious, but don't wait for others to decide for you. For every scientific study you will find another to contradict, that's normal, because in science and health is not 100%, nothing is, it's based probabilities of success and percentages.

    Listen to people who have found something(s) that works, then bring it into your situation, all the complexities that are you, decide for yourself, self experiment, take risks but make sure they are reasonable. Don't listen to people who just pick things apart, that's easy, lazy, we can pick anything apart because nothing in science is 100% absolute. Look for forum posts where people ask why or how things work, look for fellow learners, look for posts that progress the conversation instead of contradicting it, that's just lazy and counter productive. Help yourself and help others, it's a cycle that works.

    Good Luck in your health journey. I hope this helps.
     
  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I generally agree, and I am always very interested in exploring in great detail anything that has worked for other people. I am constantly experimenting myself with all sorts of therapies, with the aim of finding something that works for my enterovirus-associated ME/CFS. I don't see it as a contradiction to be both open-mindedly experimental and exploratory, but at the same time also questioning, and wanting to verify things. So don't take my questioning as being negative; it's just a desire to quantify and verify things. I am interested in the improvements you had on ozone, and I do appreciate you explaining them.



    That's interesting, I had not heard of the gamma measurement of ozone concentration before. It seems that 1 gamma = 1 milligram of ozone per liter of gas (that is to say, 1 gamma = 1 mg/L). Ref: here.

    My $40 ozone generator machine generates 400 mg of ozone per hour, and the nozzle outputs around 120 liters of gas per hour. So I just did a quick calculation, and determined that the gamma concentration achieved by my ozone generator is 3.3 gamma. So my machine outputs ozone that is about 10 times less concentrated that the ozone produced by your 30 to 40 gamma machine.

    However, I have seen inexpensive machines on eBay that pump out 10 times more ozone as my machine, and possibly these might be able to get gamma concentrations similar to your generator. The ozone generating machine pictured below costs £100 on the UK eBay, and pumps out 3500 mg of ozone per hour, which is around 10 times more than my machine pumps out, and I should think may be comparable to your machine.

    Ozone generator (3500 mg/hour) for sale at around £100 on the UK eBay
    Ozone Generator.png
    I think it is important to try to find cheaper approaches, because this would make ozone therapy more accessible to people. Not everyone wants to spend over $1,000 on an ozone machine just to see if it does help their Lyme or ME/CFS symptoms or not. Of the hundreds of therapies I have tried, most turned out not to help my ME/CFS.



    In terms of using even cheaper machines, like my $40 machine, although this outputs 10 times less ozone than yours, when making ozonated water, you may be able to compensate for this lower ozone concentration simply by bubbling the gas through the water for longer periods.

    When I make ozone water to apply to the skin of my body from head to toe (transdermal ozone), I use less than 50 ml of water (half a small glass of water), but I bubble ozone though this 50 ml water for 30 minutes (normally for a glass of water, I read that you would only bubble ozone for 5 minutes). So therefore this longer bubbling time I use should make up for the fact that my machine has a weaker ozone output.

    Also, if you read the "General Notes" section of the post I referred to earlier, you will see that there are some factors that play an important role in determining how much ozone is dissolved and preserved in the water (cold water holds twice as much ozone, acidic water prevents the dissolved ozone from rapidly decomposing). So getting this right also helps increase the ozone levels in your ozonated water.



    Are there any people with scientific backgrounds on these closed Facebook groups that might be able to answer the question of why ozone generators that use air, rather than pure oxygen, are undesirable? I have searched online, but cannot find an answer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    By the way, @Kiwi Jack, are you aware of anyone who has tried the transdermal ozone water technique I came up with (as detailed in the the post I referred to earlier)? It is a very easy method of application. I came up with this idea myself.

    My idea was that since ozone gas via a body bag works, then ozone water splashed onto the skin from head to toe should also work.
     
  4. Kiwi Jack

    Kiwi Jack

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    I'm no expert Hip, and I'm not a practitioner, I'm just an average joe. I'm simply trying to help other people with what I've experienced. If you wish to contradict my post information, go for it. It doesn't appear to me you know much about ozone, but that's where we all start. To get further details there's literally tons of information on the internet, in published books, and pubmed. Ozone therapy has been studied for decades. I suggest you go deeper into the literature for the kind of answers you seek. Good Luck.
     
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I am not really contradicting your information; I have taken what you said on board, and accept that everything you are saying may well be good advice. But I am just trying understand the reasons behind what you have said (which you have not indicated), in order to try to make sense of it.

    At least for the purpose of making ozonated water, at the moment, I can't really see why those cheaper machines would not work. Perhaps though for things like rectal insufflations of ozone gas, or ozone gas injections into veins, you would want a proper medical ozone machine. I will investigate further, and try to get a better understanding about the ins and outs of ozone generators.

    By the way, of the ozone therapy Facebook groups that you read, is there any one which you would recommend as being quite scientific, so that I can ask the sort of questions I am asking here?



    Regarding the methods of ozone administration you use (ozone water for drinking, one water enemas, rectal insufflations of ozone gas, ear insufflations, ozone sauna, ozone gas injections into a vein): do you have any information about the potency of each method? In this webpage, which compares some ozone administration methods, it says that rectal insufflation is almost as good (95% as good) as ozone autohemotherapy. So rectal insufflation seems like a potent method. Would you know how drinking ozone water compares to rectal insufflation, in terms of potency?

    Also, when you administer ozone to yourself, are there any immediate benefits that you feel in the hours or says just after?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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  7. Kiwi Jack

    Kiwi Jack

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    Sorry, I don't have the information you're looking for. I wish you good luck.
     
  8. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Hip where did you progress to with the ozone treatment? did you ever try a stronger machine and other methods of administration?
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I have not really explored ozone treatment that much. I've done it on maybe 10 occasions, without noticing much benefit (other than having an anti-inflammatory effect on my chronic nasal/sinus inflammation).

    I apply ozone using my easy ozone application technique, which is a very inexpensive way to apply ozone (it only costs around £30 to buy an ozone generator on eBay, and that's your only outlay).



    According to Dr Velio Bocci, it may be ozone's effects on the metabolism (possibility including an immunomodulatory effect) that have benefits. The idea is that ozone puts the body under transient oxidative stress, and this stress activates biological mechanisms which may provide benefits, including the possible release of stem cells.

    I understand that ozone levels in the blood during ozone therapy are too low for ozone to have any germicidal action against viruses and bacteria (although I wonder if oxygen-sensitive pathogens like Borrelia might be susceptible to ozone because Borrelia is near anaerobic, and so pretty oxygen sensitive).



    I found a study on the treatment of hepatitis C virus infection using ozone interesting:

    Ozone Therapy Improves Hepatitis C Fatigue, and Reduces Viral Load. Could it Work for ME/CFS Too?

    Like chronic enterovirus infections, chronic hepatitis C virus infections also involve non-cytolytic infections (infections of double-stranded hepatitis C virus RNA within the cells). 1 So that makes me wonder whether ozone might be beneficial for the non-cytolytic enterovirus infections that many ME/CFS patients may have. However, there does not seem to be much evidence or anecdotes that ozone works for ME/CFS.
     
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  10. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    ok @Hip im going to give the dreaded rectal option a go.

    apparently the cold plasma units are the best as they are the only ones that do not produce nitrous oxide.

    also need to be sure the tubing is ozone resistant. should be a given but suppliers do cut corners to save on costs so

    must be checked first. ive yet to determine what the tubing should be made from though.

    lastly we would need a generator that produces ozone to a significant output

    in your research did you find any models that fit these requirements? thanks
     
  11. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I just bought a cheap ozone machine on eBay, I don't know much about ozone machines.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017

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