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Hyponatremia as a cause? Salt deficiency, dehydration, too much peeing

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by GlosGirl, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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    Hi CBS, just to clear things up i wasn't meaning that the cause of DI was drinking excessive amounts of water, Im well aware of that it is caused by pituitary damage causing a lack of Vasopressin etc, etc

    Forgive me if i didn't make it clear but i was trying to explain the difference between the symptoms of DI, abormal increase in urine output, fluid intake and often thirst, compared to the symptoms of Adrenal proplems needing more salt, not able to retain extra liquids when consumed.

    Emootje is right DI causes hpernatremia not hyponatrmia

    The symptoms of Di are
    Universal Symptoms of Diabetes Insipidus
    Increased thirst

    Increased drinking

    Increased urination


    Variable Symptoms of Diabetes Insipidus
    Bed-wetting

    Getting up at night to urinate


    The Universal and Variable Symptoms of Diabetes Insipidus occur:
    in the absence of high blood and/or urine sugar

    are sometimes associated with various other symptoms due to concomitant damage to other hormones or organs.


    Potential Results of Increased Sodium Levels:
    An unmanaged sodium level may result in dehydration. A sodium level greater than 140-150 mEq/1 indicates dehydration. If it gets no higher than 155 mEq/1, the dehydration is relatively mild and is unlikely to cause a severe problem but it could and probably would produce slight brain damage that could gradually increase over long periods of time. Therefore, an effort should be made to keep the sodium below 150 mEq/1.

    To use Cort as an example he's saying he has salt cravings and increased urination only when he's consumed extra liquids. Which fits with the symptoms of Adrenal problems, for example some of the multitude of symptoms of Addison's include severe fatigue and weakness, loss of weight, increased pigmentation of the skin, faintness and low blood pressure, nausea, salt cravings and painful muscles and joints. Which are very likely to be confused for those of CFS, and people do get misdiagnosed with CFS when they have Adrenal problems

    Going of at a slight tangent did you ever find the cause of your low ceruloplasmin results if not here's a link to the conditions that cause it http://en.diagnosispro.com/differential_diagnosis-for/ceruloplasmin-lab-decreased/11941-153.html

    If anyone reading this thinks they might have either of these conditions they can be tested for and treated how to test for Diabetes insididus can be found here http://www.diabetesinsipidus.org/diagnostictests.htm Ive put links to information on tests for Adrenal problems on page 8 of the salt poll tread in the lifestyle management and on page 4 of the known cfs misdiagnosis tread in the diagnostic guidelines section

    All the best
     
  2. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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    Hi InTuneJune as far as i know you can't have dehydration and significant leg swelling, if the swelling is caused by edema. Have any of these doctors tested your blood sodium level to find out if you have a problem with salt? There's about two hundred causes of edema, some arn't to much to worry about, other can be quite serious, so my advise would be to keep pushing them to find the cause, rather then just treating the symptom, all the best hope it sorts out soon!
     
  3. wallace

    wallace

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    one strategy! Vit C and salt protocol

    tried Salt/C for a couple of months years ago and gave up as it made no difference to my symtoms.
    As with any protocol abx etc there are dangers and risks involved but I never considered it espechially dangerous. Just not universally effective!!!

    its unfortunate that people advocating it are selling e books as that gives the protocol not the right image!

    That said I do think drinking enough pure water is important. How much is enough? I kinda agree with Dr Robert O young when he says you should aim for 1 litre of water for every 30lbs of body weight. Thats my personal innovation!

    However since then I have had cavational surgery on my jaw and got my teeth sorted out and I have just restared the salt/C protocol and this time I do feel a difference!!

    I am on 20 g of celtic salt and also take 4g of effeversent Vit C. I know that is a low amout of vit C but its my preference. I take a little clay and charcoal for mopping up the toxins.

    Any one else here on it?

    wallace
     
  4. wallace

    wallace

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  5. wallace

    wallace

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  6. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Hi Wallace .. I find Vitamin C helps me a little (maybe cause its an antioxident). I do salt everything as my sodium level goes abnormally low at times (something is obviously wrong with my body for me to get abnormal sodium blood levels when Ive never avoided salt).. but the salt dont seem to do anything.

    I cant remember now exactly what it did but a couple of people in the past were harmed by the salt and C protocol, so take care.
     
  7. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    Woodridge, IL
    Re dehydration & edema (YES they can and often do co-exist)

    InTrueJune and Ric, actually it is VERY possible to be dehydrated and have edema at the same time.....many diuretics can actually cause edema even though that would seem counterintuitive

    here is an explanation that I found....i am not familiar with the source, but it fits with what I have previously read on trusted sources:

    The reason people get Edema.
    We have been mislead to believe that edema is due to overdrinking of water. The opposite is true, prolonged dehydration had cause edema.

    Here you can learn and understand the need for water, salt and potassium together regulate the water content of the human body. Water regulates the water content of the interior of the cell by working its way into all the (trillions)cells it reaches. Water has to get there to cleanse and extract the toxic waste of cell metabolism.

    Once water gets into the cells, the potassium content of the cells holds on to it and keeps it there -- to the extent that potassium is available inside the cells.

    Even in the plant kingdom, it is potassium in the fruit that gives it firmness by holding water in the interior of the fruit. Our daily food contains ample potassium from its natural sources of fruits and vegetables, but not salt from its natural sources. That is why we need to add salt to our daily diet.
    Note: Do not take too much potassium as a dietary supplement (if you are taking right now). It could cause trouble.

    Good health depends on a most delicate balance between the volumes of 'watery-oceans' held inside the cells of the human body, and the other 'watery-oceans' held outside the cells. This delicate balance is achieved by the regular intake of water, potassium-rich fruits and vegetables that also contain the organic vitamins needed by the human body, and salt. Unrefined sea salt, which contains some of the other trace minerals that the body needs, is preferable. Avoid the regular table-salt. Sea salt may not contain enough iodine to keep the thyroid gland working normally, and it may enlarge into a goiter. regular intake of a multivitamin (ensure it's plant based organic supplements) that contains iodine is essential. Another source of iodine is dried kelp capsules, which are available from health food stores/supermarkets.

    When water is not available to get into the cells freely, it is filtered from the outside 'salty-ocean' and injected into the cells that are being overworked despite their water shortage. This secondary and emergency means of supplying important cells with injected water is the reason, in severe dehydration, that we retain salt and develop edema -- to have more water available to draw from for filtration and injection into the cells.

    Recall, the design of our bodies is such that the extent of the 'ocean-of-water' outside the cells is expanded to have extra water in reserve for filtration and emergency injection into vital cells. To achieve this, the brain commands an increase in salt and water retention by the kidneys. This directive of the brain is the reason we get edema when we don't drink enough water, in accordance to our own body weight, daily. Remember the water-cure formula to calculate your own water quota requirement.

    When water shortage in the body reaches a more critical level, and delivery of water by its injection into the trillions cells becomes the main route of supply to more and more cells, an associated rise in injection pressure becomes necessary. The significant rise in pressure needed to inject water into the cells to service them becomes measurable and is labeled "hypertension," or high blood pressure. The drugs used will make the body natural survival functions to deteriorate and cause more complication of organs malfunctions overtime.

    Initially, the process of water filtration and its delivery into the cells is more efficient at night when the human body is horizontal, normal sleeping posture. In this position, the collected water, which settles mostly in the legs during the day, does not have to fight the forge of gravity to get into the blood circulation. If reliance on this process of emergency hydration of some cells continues for long, the lungs begin to get waterlogged at night, and breathing becomes difficult. The person needs more pillows support to sit upright to sleep. This condition is called cardiac asthma, and it is the consequence of dehydration.

    However, in this condition you must not overload the system by drinking too much water at the beginning. All things in nature have natural law governing them. Just be patient and reverse the symptoms slow and steady. Increases in water intake must be slow and spaced out -- until urine production begins to increase at the same rate that you drink water.

    When we drink enough water to pass clear urine, we also pass out a lot of the salt that was held back. This is how we can get rid of edema fluid from the body. Not diuretics/more drugs please, but by more gentle increase of water intake! Water is the best natural diuretic and natural detoxicator that exists. You can rest assured of positive results, anytime, with water-cure protocol.

    In a person who has extensive edema and whose heart sometimes beats irregularly or rapidly with little effort, the increase in water intake should be gradual and spaced out, but water should not be withheld from the human body. Salt intake should be sea salt, and be limited for two or three days because the body is still in an overdrive mode to retain it. Once the edema has cleared , sea salt should again be added to your diet. If there are irregular heartbeats, or the pulse is fast and furious but there is no edema, increase water, salt, and other minerals such as magnesium, calcium, and some potassium ,all in organic form, will alleviate the problem.
     
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Lymephotos.com - GU Syndrome - Lyme Disease

    Hey Wallace,

    I just ran across across the website at lymephotos.com. Holy moly, what an eyeopener! After discovering it, I did a search here and saw your post. I would be most interested to hear how you're doing on your Salt/C protocol. I think I remember Slayadragon saying at one time it was not good for her at all, but I didn't have a clue at the time what the therapy was about. I now suspect she may have experienced an immediate and significant dieoff of who knows what kind of microscopic parasite.

    I'm in the processing of really buckling down and doing some research on Lyme Disease and Lyme treatment. The things I'm running across are quite phenomonal. I was wondering if you're familiar with the concept of GU Syndrome? Heiner Fruehauf believes Lyme Disease is a modern day manifestation of the microscopic parasitic infections that were labeled GU Syndrome by ancient Chinese medical texts. And I suspect many pictures on lymephotos.com would fit into the same category. Sure makes me think many cases of ME/CFS are probably the same thing. Any thoughts?

    Wayne
     
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ashland, Oregon
    Oral Salt Therapy

    The following section explains how the Salt/C protocol works agaisnt Lyme bacteria. It apparently works the same way against many other pathogens/parasites. The full article from which I copied the following segment is entitled:

    Lyme Disease, Potential Plague of the 21st Century
    - by Professor Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen

    ................................................................................

    Oral Salt Therapy

    Certain white blood cells (WBC) display several distinct mechanisms that may be employed for the purpose of killing invading microorganisms. One of these deserves particular attention in relation to killing the causative agent of Lyme disease, namely, the spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi.

    Neutrophils (a class of WBC) contain two essentially different types of storage granules, peroxidase-positive granules and peroxidase-negative granules. Peroxidase-positive granules contain myeloperoxidase, an enzyme that uses hypochlorous acid (HOCl) in conjunction with hydrogen peroxide, providing a source of nascent (atomic) oxygen for the purpose of killing invading microorganisms.11

    Peroxidase-negative granules contain a family of large polypeptides (11 to 19 kDa) (Dalton, the unit of molecular weight) known as the cathelicidins or, in humans, hCAP-18. A segment of this larger or precursor protein (also known as a Bacteriacidal Permeability-Increasing (BPI) protein) is proteolytically removed by the enzyme elastase found in peroxidase-positive granules. The better-known substrate of elastase is the elastic protein elastin, found in skin and other tissues requiring elasticity. By incorporating elastase inhibitors into skin creams, attempts are made to inhibit the activity of this enzyme, thereby decreasing the ageing of skin. In Lyme therapy there is an advantage (described below) to increasing the activity of this enzyme, thereby stimulating the natural antimicrobial system. These short peptides, ranging from 12 to 100 amino acids, have the ability to assemble into larger units that form pores in the membrane surrounding microorganisms, thereby increasing the permeability of those membranes. In humans, one of these antimicrobial peptides has been dubbed LL-37.11 See photo of a neutrophil granule precursor antimicrobial protein and peptide, 31KB .pdf, courtesy of Blood 96 (8) 2000.

    Both of these proteins, the cathelicidin and elastase, meet in the phagocytic vacuole, the cytoplasmic chamber in which resides the phagocytized microorganism. Within this chamber, elastase removes a short peptide capable of forming a molecular pore in the surface membrane of the microorganism. The pore formed from a group of the cathelicidins allows the efflux of potassium ions from the organism, resulting in swelling and eventual lysis.12

    Research has shown that, of all the proteins in neutrophil granules, the only protein capable of releasing the cathelicidin active peptide is elastase.13 It has been demonstrated that the activity of elastase is enhanced by an increased salt concentration.14 Through oral salt (12 g per day, see Chart 12), combined with large doses of vitamin C, the indirect killing ability of elastase is dramatically increased.15

    Increasing the sodium concentration surrounding the spirochete may also facilitate cell killing by allowing sodium ions to enter the spirochete through the pore created by the antimicrobial peptide. An increased intracellular sodium concentration, combined with a decreased potassium concentration, leads to spirochete death. The exact mechanism by which the human cathelicidin LL-37 kills Bb is unknown. See Chart 8, Oral Salt Therapy for Lyme Disease. (58KB .pdf)
     
  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    I just looked at that website and have to comment on something I saw there. It says "we settled on a dosage of 3 grams of salt and 3,000 mg of vitamin C, each dose taken 4 times per day." and "Diarrhea will occur as your body sheds itself of the pathogens".

    I'd like to point out that taking that much Vitamin C is enough to give many people or most people diarrhea .. so any diarrhea which happens from anyone doing that, isnt necessarily due to pathogens.
     
  11. wallace

    wallace

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    Yep Yu syndrome seems about right. TCM needs to follow this guy. I saw a top practitioner and I am sure he never tried this!

    20 g of vit C of course would cause that. I dont think you need that amount. Still at 4g.

    People disagree about how much water is best to drink.

    The consensus seems that the best salt is himalayan. I have switched to that and feel better.

    Still on
    20g salt.

    See my ramblings on
    http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/74996/4

    for info on facebook site etc
     

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