Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by Grigor, Aug 14, 2014.
Thank you Iavonia . She started me on 5 mg ...is not a lot.
Hi Ema . Did you have trouble getting off the HC again??
My HPA axis is still dysregulated so I go on and off the steroids as needed. It's not hard to wean when my own cortisol production is good and my stress levels are low.
At 5 mg a day though you are not suppressing your own production of cortisol much, if any. I personally wouldn't even wean for more than a few days off that dose.
No, I don't take or need HC, I have too much Cortisol and Adrenaline, but too little Noradrenaline.
I you do remember the source you will have to post it so we can all take a look.
I've been able to resolve my hypoglycemia with methylation treatment. I believe the hypoglycemia is related to the adrenals just like you're all discussing. My adrenals were flat-lined - among the very worst my naturopath had ever seen. I was never able to tolerate any kind of adrenal glandular without getting anxious. So for a long time, I just supplemented with electrolytes, as those will leak out when you have weak adrenals.
I believe methylation treatment is helping my adrenals. Based on the amount of electrolyte supplementation I've been able to reduce, and a change for the better in my sleep cycle, my adrenals are about 50% better. My hypoglycemia is pretty much non-existent as long as I eat real food and nothing sugary. I do follow a balanced Zone type diet, where each meal or snack is protein, carbs and fat.
I can now go 4-6 hours between meals, like a normal person.
Good point, adrenal function is heavily dependant on all of: Methylation; R5P (indirectly); P5P (directly); Vitamin C.
Have u had adrenaline and noradrenaline tested?
I didnt think testing for these would be accurate due to their half lives being so short as in minutes? Just someone getting a blood test for these and recieving a needle (fear factor) could increase their levels, alterating the measurements rather quickly?
with the conventional test yes, that would be true. Though I have no fear whatsoever of needles, feel no stress around medics, I am more likely to notice their tie colour or eye colour than the needle. This results form decades of experience of being jabbed.
The particular tests I had were platelet rather than serum tests - they have the advantages of giving a two hour average and not being impacted by level changes seconds ago.
I have heard of people doing urine tests for similar neurotransmitters etc. What's your opinion on these types of tests for accuracy etc?
Just to give another train of thought to this discussion, people on a low FODMAP diet for longer than a few weeks starve their gut bacteria of food. We get huge amounts of our needed vitamins and other substrates, including short chain fatty acids (SCFA), from our gut bacteria. Those SCFAs go a long way to supplying energy throughout the day.
If carnitine, vitamin K2 and COQ10 supplements help, if you suffer from sleep difficulties and depressive moods and have problems with hypoglycemia and feeling cold on a low FODMAP diet, then, chances are, you've starved your E. Coli (the helpful kind) into nonexistence.
E. Coli love galactoogliosaccarhides (GOS), of which a good supply is in beans (pulses) like kidney beans, navy beans, etc. They also love fucose, found in brown seaweed.
I found this out the hard way, having been on a low FODMAP diet for years instead of weeks. I got myself a can of 4 bean mix and started eating a couple of beans a day and worked up to 1/4 of a tin a day. I needed to go slow cause introducing a new food like this will result in flatulence and discomfort in the colon. That passes in a few days as the number of good bacteria grow to digest the food you're giving them. this is where 'start low and go slow' is of value.
The difference for me was huge. Within days I was happier, stronger and warmer, less of that hypoglycemic rise and fall. I was also sleeping well as an added bonus.
The other problem with a low FODMAP diet is that it doesn't feed the bifida and bifida friends, and they supply a lot of our other B vitamins. Bifida love fructoogliosaccharides (FOS) but suppress the growth of E. Coli. Keeping E. Coli healthy while trying to support the bifida can be a struggle. I haven't found the solution to that balancing act yet.
The other thing that really helped with hypoglycemia was half a cooked, then cooled, potato taken with a meal of meat and veggies. It contains resistant starch type 3 and generates lots of those SCFAs to use as energy.
I don't know how this will interact with the hormonal difficulties discussed above but perhaps taking the reliance away from glucose or protein as energy source and replenishing the SCFAs will take some of the strain off the hormonal systems you're discussing.
Also this isn't a cure, it will bump up some of the metabolic systems to do with carnitine, COQ 10 and K2 but place strain on the other B vitamins as it uses them up. You may find your need for B vitamins increases.
Good luck with it.
I don't have a strong opinion but I do have two concerns. The first is that those tests look for downstream metabolites of the Neurotransmitters, not the actual hormones, hence if vitamin status / methyl status is not right I wonder how accurate they are. The second is that with Polyuria a much higher percentage of the test sample is water, and it means that larger multipliers are involved in the calculation - my gut hunch is that any inherent error in the instrumentation is likely to be magnified when people are producing 5-10-15 litres of urine per day rather than the usual 2.
I would very much like to see some hard science done, comparing these urine based measures with 'reliable method' and between ME patients and the healthy population.
From what I have read it seems alternative doctors seem to use these test but I have also read some do a spot test which it seems what you are referring and others who test urine over a 24hr period. Many of these tests are quite expensive and aren't used mainstream, I find it hard to put my trust in them. I prefer to do a treatment trial for supps etc as it is much more economical.
What's your opinion on saliva testing? My experience is that my cortisol blood test vs saliva, seemed in synch. Testosterone and dhea though seem to be very different when comparing blood and saliva. I'm guessing saliva is only accurate for some hormones and not others??
Maybe you could explain exactly what and how you took it. I'm new to all this...
Unfortunately, there is no easy way to explain what I'm doing. Basic methylation supplements are the active forms of B12 and folic acid. But you don't want to start messing around with your methylation cycle without a lot of research and without a good doctor.
That being said - you can start with the Methylation Made Easy videos in my signature links below to get a basic understanding of the concept of what is methylation, how does poor methylation cause ME/CFS (and about 30 other diseases) and how to fix it.
Once you've grasped that, I have many other useful documents and links in my signature pertaining to methylation.
Many of us on here are trying various methylation treatments with various degrees of success in many areas.
Dr. Rind just said to take methyl guard pro for MTHFR without any investigation into the mutation. So I guess good Dr's are hard to find.
No, that's not alot. I am up to 15 mg on mine, it helps, but not nearly enough. Was going to ask about it on the board myself.
I had horrible AFS (adrenal fatigue syndrome) with severe hypoglycemia. At my worst I was driving to McDonalds for a $.99 ice cream cone ever 3 hours on autopilot, uncontrollably and unable to consciously consider what I was doing.
I cured it without taking HC or any drugs, but it was a long ride. I heard so many stories about difficulty going off HC I never wanted to get on if I could help it.
I went on a carbohydrate-controlled diet spelled out in The Schwarzbein Principle II - for the one insulin resistant people with burned out addrenals.
Eventually after several months my hypoglycemia stabilized.
When I got much healthier and more stable, I went on the Primal Blueprint diet - eliminating grains and sugar completely. Then my insulin resistance and blood sugar problems, food cravings, went away completely. Now I am never hungry between meals, can skip meals, my thyorid functions great, etc.
Life is much sweeter without flour and dessert... I found. But it was a process.
Eating an all organic diet with enough protein and fat at every meal and keeping carbs low was one of the keys to improving my hypoglycemia.
Also, strengthening my adrenals (which were tanked) has been helpful as well. I use adaptogenic herbs for that--ashwaghanda, schisandra and eleuthero root, with some licorice in small doses (very strong!) and 7Keto DHEA. Getting enough potassium and magnesium has also been essential.
For what it's worth, I did HORRIBLY on HC! It demolished my adrenals back in 2009 and I haven't been back to square one since then. It also made my hypoglycemia worse.
@Sherpa . Interesting. I might need to buy the book or can you kind of tell me what you did???
@Dreambirdie . I did horrible on HC too. I took it only for 5 days but felt horrible. And scared of a relapse.
Taking some supplements too but goes very slow.
@Grigor What I did was follow the Schwarzbein Principle II for a year or two which reduced my hypoglycemia. At that point my system was far stronger and more stable, I went on the stricter Primal Blueprint diet which eliminated my hypoglycemia 100%:
I've stopped eating all sugar, grains (rice, oats, quinoa), wheat / flour... all processed food.
In the evening meal I have either one (1) piece of fruit or one (1) serving of sweet potato. That's it. This gives me some carbs & helps me sleep, but stops the hypoglycemia "yo-yo" effect that inevitably happens if carbs are consumed early in the day.
Instead of getting calories and energy from carbs... and being constantly hungry every 2 hours... now I get most of my energy from fats like butter, olive & coconut oil, avocados. I also eat plenty calorie-dense protiens like beef, eggs, sardines, salmon. And plenty of steamed veggies to fill up my plate. I am never, ever hungry unless I haven't eaten in more than 7 hours or I do especially intense physical activity.
The problem is... when you are hypoglycemic... your body is set on burning carbs for energy - addicted - and it's a difficult trap to get out of. If you just stop eating all carbs suddenly, your symptoms will get worse.
The Schwarbein Principle II is a metabolism-healing diet that is designed to gradually help you out of hypoglycemia. It teaches you how to combine fats with proteins (rice with coconut oil, bread with butter, cheese and crackers) to give you less glycemic reactivity. It has different levels of suggeted carb intake for different states of health.
I would suggest you buy the following 3 books if financially possible:
1. Living Low Carb - this book is worth every penny for the first 3 chapters that explain insulin, hypoglycemia
2. Schwarbein Principle II
3. The Primal Blueprint
Also consider the free The Stone Age Diet by CFS specialist Dr. Myhill. She says the type of diet I recommend is basically essential for CFS recovery.
Yours in balanced blood sugar,
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