The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Hyper with Hypo symptoms?

Discussion in 'Thyroid Dysfunction' started by Lucas, May 27, 2015.

  1. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    Hello.
    Male, 37 years old, whit fatigue and brain fog.

    Did a blood test and get some results:

    Prolactin: 41,09 ng/ml Ref: 2,10 - 17,70

    TSH: 0,015 uui/ml Ref: 0,40 - 4,30

    Free T3: 0,80 ng/dl Ref: 0,20 - 0,40

    Serum Iron: 110 ug/dl Ref: 65 – 175

    Ferritin: 313 ng/ml Ref: 22 - 322

    Progesterone: 0,44 ng/ml Ref: no reference for men

    Antithyroglobulin antibody : < 30 ui/ml Ref: < 60 ui/ml

    So, I have high iron levels, high prolactin. This explains why I have infertility (prolactin). The high iron is a marker for inflammation?

    How can I have so low TSH and high t3 (hyperthyroid??) if I have hypo symptoms, how is possible to my body temperature be 36 c at wake up and 36.4 mid day and I have fatigue and brain fog all day???

    I am taking 4 grains of NDT (TR. Tman).

    Sorry, don’t take my tsh before NDT treatment , but in 2010 it was never more than 3.

    Thank you very much.

    More tests will come.
     
  2. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    Well, have you checked adrenal output? Low cortisol can cause that body temperature to lower too, as well as brain fog and fatigue. Cortisol is influencing the conversion to T3, so if it's too low, then maybe it's one more way to drive down your tsh

    Anyway, what is really weird is that prolactin level, mixed with that tsh level. have you ruled out pituitary problems? perhaps you could do some stimulation test with hormones and an mri?

    Did you test IGF-1?

    what did ur doctor say?
     
  3. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    More results:

    Total Testosterone : 790 ng/dl Ref: 241 - 827 ng/dl
    SHBG: 88,1 nmol/L
    Free Testosterone: 8,67 ng/dl
    Bioavailable Testosterone: 203,21 ng/dl
    Vit D: 78,4 ng/ml
    Cortisol Basal : 18,6 ug/dl Ref: 4,0 – 22,00 ug/dl
    Transferrin : 196 mg/dl Ref: 215-365 mg/dl

    Something is wrong:

    How can I have high prolactin whit low tsh?
    How can I have high prolactin and a normal testosterone ?
    Transferrin is low, but Serum Iron and Ferritin are high. Is this ok?
    Also, I had low blood pressure. It is so low that I faint on this blood test. Is possible to be hypothyroid and have a low blood pressure?
    When I started Desiccated Thyroid whit half a grain I fell amazing for only 2 days, then after only get worse. Can this be a case of adrenal fatigue?
    To add more information, I am thin.
     
  4. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    Evrrything looks fine except transferrin, so checl for anemia; and prolactin please do ask ur doctor for acromegalya and demand an mri of the pituitary.

    Can u measure your blood dopamine and urinary dopamine?

    Rule out insulin resistance. Maybe do a insulin tolerance test.

    Test igf-1.

    Rule outngrowth hormone deficiency.

    I cant think of anything else for now. That prolactin value is weird

    Any symptoms of low dopamine? Rls?plmd? Low libido?
     
  5. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    1,498
    New Mexico
    below normal TSH is indicative of hyperthyroid..............high TSH indicative of hypo. There is a lot of overlap between hypo and hyper symptoms.
     
    futuritycarpaccio likes this.
  6. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    Forgot to mention that! Yes thats hyperthyroid.

    I thinl the symptoms overlap a bit especially with adrrnal problems

    Why are you taking ndt if ur tsh was never more than 3?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
    Tammy likes this.
  7. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    Hello.

    Thank you very much for your help.

    Since I had fatigue whit a low body temperature, I began to think that I was hypothyroid, so became to take NDT. Whit half a grain feels great for 2 days, than after became fatigued again, so I keeping increasing the dose whit no temperature changes, get to 4 grains and did the blood test, and show hyperthyroid. In the last 2 to 3 weeks I became too loose weight whit no diet! But what was strange was that my body temperature kept low, not increasing as supposed to be when getting close to a hyperthyroid state.

    I have periodic movement limb disorder (like a RLS only when sleeping). I am taking Gabapentin (the generic of Neurotin for that). I want to take off this medication, but the withdraw is amazing!! And I take only 300 mg before bed. I think that magnesium can do a great job than this drug.
     
  8. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    You did a mistake there self.medicating on ndt! Do not worry this is solvable, but you have to learn from this mistake. You have not researched your condition enough.

    You have probably an adrenal issue. For sure u are hyperthyroid now! You shoild slowly decrease thatbdosage of ndt until you tsh is somewhere between 1-2, or maybe until you take it out competely.

    Cortisol can be resppnsoble for body temperature too. Especially low cortisol, which will also cause fatigue


    You need.to do this and reevaluate all the hormones. And then dont forget to retest that prolactin.

    But gabapentin is probably leaving you with very high prolactin. I dont know why this would be first line of treatment...

    This is so wrong in my opinion and damaging you further. You need to find a decent doctor asap.



    When all is back to normal try uridine+dha+citicholine for plmd but before measure electrolytes, check if there is an imbalance. Especially sodium since you may have an adrenal issue. Maybe test aldosterone too and dont forget to test adrenals:
    - 4x in saliva
    - 24h urine
    - total cortisol
    - cortisol binding globulin if possible
    - acth stimulation test or dexamethasone suppression test if ruling out addisons or cushings is necessary
    - imaging of adrenals
    - dhea, dhea-s
    - urinary catecholamines

    Regarding tsppering off gabapentin go very slowly. Maybe 5-10% every week or 2. It is very important u go slowly. But for this u need to talk to ur doctor maybe to get a liquif version of this or do a crossover with a benzo with long half life like valium, if thats even possible to do.

    You can maybe introduce uridine while still tappering off gabapentin. Unsure. How bad is ur case of plmd? What did the sleep study say?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  9. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    Hello.

    Yesterday I didn’t take any NDT and survived. So I am already off this.
    Today, I take 350 mg of Mucuna to see if I raise my dopamine. Until now, no effect.

    I don’t think that I had anemia, since my serum iron and ferritin is high, only transferrin is low.

    I think the real problem maybe is cortisol and gabapentin.

    I will taper off the medication at 10% every 2 weeks, taking magnesium at night to compensate the less medication.

    For cortisol, I will try adrenal cortex otc supplements.

    Low cortisol = low dopamine?

    About b12, mine is at 997, so I am waiting for the MMA (methylmalonic acidtest) results to see if I had a functional b12 deficiency, since I had the MTHFR C677Theteromutation, and don’t supplement the b12, so I don’t understand the high value ( my record for the b12 test is 2800, done when I was a teen).

    Since I had high b12, how so much fatigue?

    Everything I do at day is to combat fatigue. Is strange, but my energy is better at evening.
     
    futuritycarpaccio likes this.
  10. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    Man quitting like that ndt will not be good. I hope u will be ok as this can create hpta imbalance and that takes time to solve itself out! U should always cut slowly over a few weeks.

    You are going to put mucuna now and quitting ndt at the same time i dont think this gives the body a chance to rebalance

    U shoukd move slowly, whats the rush?
    It may be counterproductive

    Anyway, if u feel better in eveningd thats adrenal related probably cortisol. Unsure if its high or low. Again, the symptoms.overlap a bit.

    I dont know why the high b12. Maybe ure.not converting it?

    And theMTHFR is for b9 not for b12
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  11. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    @Valentijn you are one of the most experienced people here, maybe you can comment on this experience?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,281
    Likes:
    45,850
    Sorry, I don't know anything about thyroid issues :p
     
  13. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    My Folic Acid levels in this blood test comes:

    21,3 ng/ml Ref: > 5,38 ng/ml

    Get my zinc results and comes:

    138,00 ug/dl Ref: 72,6 – 127,0 ug/dl

    Zinc comes a little high, but I will not worry about, better this than be deficient.

    Looking of symptoms of high or low cortisol, I think that in my case I had low cortisol. Why, because if I had high, I will have insomnia, and this is not my problem, I don’t wake up at 3 am like high cortisol people do.

    I have read that if a person whit low cortisol becomes to take ndt, they feel better only for some days to get worse after and this is exactly what happened to me.

    Should I post on the adrenal forum?
     
  14. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    I think you will get more help over there i assume.

    People with low cortisol also wake up often after 5-6 hours of sleep by a norepeniphrine surge to compensate for low cortisol.

    You should do the saliva test to know for sure.
    And you should test copper along with zinc. Maybe you need a little copper. Dont know
     
  15. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    Ops, forget to mention that cooper was tested too and comes:

    89,70 ug/dl Ref: 70 – 140 ug/dl

    So, its normal.
     
    futuritycarpaccio likes this.
  16. futuritycarpaccio

    futuritycarpaccio Guest

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    54
    seems solid, the ratio seems correct too.
     
  17. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    My Cholesterol results:

    Total Cholesterol: 152 mg/dl

    HDL: 48 mg/dl

    LDL: 93 mg/dl

    Triglycerides : 55 mg/dl

    I eat 6 whole eggs a day, haha!!

    Plans of action:

    I have some options for treating adrenal fatigue:

    Cycloset ( increasing dopamine, cortisol and lowering prolactin)

    Pregnenolone

    Adrenal cortex

    Or

    Rhodiola Rossea, Licorice, vit c and b5.
     
  18. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    1,498
    New Mexico
    Could you elaborate more on the Cycloset which is for diabeties? It raises dopamine and cortisol?
     
  19. Lucas

    Lucas

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    6
    Cycloset:
    Cortisol:
    https://www.facebook.com/drjackkruse/posts/516027165128309
    "Remember the cycloset is made for increasing AM cortisol......Works awesome and is a great way to stop taking hydrocortisone in LR states or in Adrenal fatigue"

    http://asweetlife.org/diabetes/type-2-diabetes/type-2-diabetes-treatments/cycloset-bromocriptine/
    "Cycloset is a quick-release formulation of bromocriptine. Unlike other medications for type 2 diabetes, Cycloset increases dopamine receptor activity in the morning, which lowers blood sugar—without increasing insulin"
    "Bromocriptine has been in use for decades for treatment of pituitary tumors, Parkinson’s disease (PD), hyperprolactinaemia, and neuroleptic malignant syndrome."
     
    futuritycarpaccio likes this.
  20. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    1,498
    New Mexico
    Are you concerned with it lowering your blood sugar or altering the gut flora which I read in the first insert? You don't want your blood sugar to be too low.........this would not be good for the adrenals. I am curious.........was this something you researched on your own or did a Dr. suggest it? I mean how would you get a Dr. to prescribe if you don't have diabetes?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page