Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by retireddpm, Aug 21, 2010.
Does anyone have any idea of how many mcgs are absorbed from the 2000mcg sublingual tabs?
I guess what I need to know is if the sublingual is suitable for b12 deficiency . I have been using methyl form of sublingual but the startup/detox is very strong making my neuropathy symptoms worse. Some say that the body only absorbs 10 mcg of hydroxy or cyano form but you get 15-20 % of an oral sublingual dose of methyl b12. Would appreciate any comments on this very much
Why not just lower the dose? The methyl form can be very strong, but you can cut up a sublingual tablet. The Methyl form is far less expensive than Hydroxy form, and stronger, so I don't see why use the Hydroxy form.
Anyway, as far as dosing MB12, in my own case I just found the dose that was on the edge, a dose that gave me some mild startup/detox symptoms but not too much. Then I have worked up from there. Pacing in the B12 protocol seems to be very important, a graded approach.
how much did you start with. It seems I cold take 1-2 mg over a day when I started but now if I take 250mcg by the second dose of the day I get a lot of numbness and tingling and increased tinnitus.
Is this a reference to the Perque? I know their literature says it has above a 95% uptake. I wonder if anyone out there on the Yasko protocol knows whether patients doing this protocol have found that their test results match this claim. It would be nice to know.
I guess the real question is how much is converted to usable methyl and adeno forms of b12
That depends in part on what you mean by absorb. If the pills involved have an absorption rate comparable to the methylb12 tablets I have tested, the absorption could be 15% in the first 45 minutes and a total of 25% in 120 minutes. That could mean 300-500mcg are absorbed into the serum. However, if you mean how much active b12 entered the serum as a result of the serum entered hycbl, that would likely be in the range of 10-30mcg, the probable biological level of conversion to active b12. The bulk of the rest is excreted by the kidneys in 24 -48 hours.
Based on my experience and those others have shared with me the methylb12 is a whole lot more effective for more symptoms for far more people. The methylb12 does contribute a methyl group. The hycbl depletes methylation capacity. It has to take the methyl group from somewhere else to be come a methyl donor. Taking hycbl over as period of a year or two increase 2/3 of b12 deficiency symptoms and decreas about 1/3 of them. Taken with folic acid it makes the methyl depletion much worse. What are often call "detox" symptoms with hycbl are actually b12 deficiency symptoms made worse by hycbl. Just because something is called "detox" doesn't make it so. What is called "glutathione detox" symptoms consist virtually 100% of methylfolate deficiency symptoms along with methylb12 and adenosylb12 deficiency symptoms showing up the longer it goes on. It has nothiong at all to do with detox in any way. Methylb12 does not produce the level of "detox" attributed to it. When paresthesias appear to get worse, I would say that they are actually perceived with more intensity as the nerves start transmitting more signal through the still damaged nerves so one feels them more. The things that kick up the most at first are often the things that improve the fastest and most; mb12 is very predictable like that whereas the same kinds of increase in symptoms with hycbl are frequently actually the symptoms getting worse because of a worsening deficiency becasue of the only partial effectiveness of hycbl. Context is critical in this because the reactions to hycbl are completely different than to mb12 despite apparant similarity. Reaction to hycbl does not predict reaction to mb12. People who have been taking hycbl/cycbl and folic acid typically have far more intense mb12 startup responses. These will get worse the longer you take the hycbl whereas the ones with methylb12 startup fade fairly rapidly over time. In one year with hycbl the socalled "detox" symptoms can be worse than ever and still getting worse whereas with methylb12 they are usually mostly or completely gone.
A separate set of symptoms respond to adb12 whose startup symptoms are usually very short lived and relatively mild.
This can be tested the same way as I tested adb12 and mb12 sublinguals, by testing sublingual absorbtion versus injections via urine colorimetry. Personally I doubt the 95+% uptake claim. I did a urine colorimetry calibration of the injections of 1mg - 25mg in a single SC injection. I compared that to a series of sublingual doses from 5/6mg to 50/51mg for times of 45, 60, 90 and 120 minutes. 120 minutes of 30mg equaled 45 minutes of 50mg which equaled 7.5mg of injected mb12 or adb12. 120 minutes of 50mg equaled 12.5+mg of injected mb12.
If you get 95% absorbtion the 3 hr urine collection starting with an empty bladder should be strongly colored with an 8mg sublingual dose. Compare it to an injected dose of 7.5mg as well Try it.
Compare it to the various doses of Jarrow 5mg mb12 sublinguals and times which I have already calibrated. Hycbl is a little "redder" and the mb12 is more "magenta" than "red" but that will make no practical difference in urine colorimetry because of the other components affecting coloration.
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