1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Can You Come for a Visit? My ME/CFS Says No
My daughter and son-in-law just had a baby last week. We are thrilled. But we won't be able to see the baby or hold her any time soon. We won't be able to take over little gifts or help out with housework or babysitting.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Huge improvement in two hours

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by knackers323, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

    Messages:
    837
    Likes:
    165
    Unbelievable. I took rhamnosus lysate powder capsules thinking it was a probiotic.

    Two hours later I felt human again. I don't really know what else to say. Anyone else tried this? Give it a go.
     
    Adlyfrost, Abha, Jools and 6 others like this.
  2. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    936
    Likes:
    519
    Murcia, Spain
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  3. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

    Messages:
    2,881
    Likes:
    2,011
    UK
    @knackers323
    Can I ask you - Do you get colds, flu etc?. Just wondering if you needed an immune booster, I've rarely had anything since getting ME apart from massive viral crashes, so think my immune system is already on high alert??just thinking out loud be interested to hear what others think............
     
    Plum likes this.
  4. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

    Messages:
    171
    Likes:
    25
    Rome,Italy,Europe
    uhm it is not a probiotic??? if not what it consist of???
     
  5. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

    Messages:
    594
    Likes:
    211
    Ontario
    Very interesting. How much did you take and is it single strain ?
     
  6. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes:
    4,396
    Cornwall, UK
    I don't think it could be due to a healed gut switching off autoimmunity, as the effect was too fast. I think it must have been a different effect. Hope it lasts, @knackers323. Stay human! (Maybe if you take more you will feel superhuman!)
     
  7. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    936
    Likes:
    519
    Murcia, Spain
    Yeah I thought the same, but then what could be the mechanism? Undoubtely is related with the immune system and most probably the gut.
     
  8. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes:
    4,396
    Cornwall, UK
    There may be lots of possibilities. Reduced inflammation perhaps? An effect via the vagus nerve?
     
  9. jstefl

    jstefl Senior Member

    Messages:
    167
    Likes:
    75
    Brookfield, Wisconsin
    This sounds very interesting.

    Can you provide us with some information on the powder? What brand, where can we find it, what dose did you take, and anything else that may help.

    Thanks

    John
     
  10. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

    Messages:
    367
    Likes:
    229
    I've taken probiotics in the past that have given me quite a boost within a couple hours. However it's always been unsustainable. What seems to be happening is it bumps me into an anaerobic mode that has me functioning at a higher level of energy, but once the glycogen runs out I end up feeling more spent.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
  11. MARGARITA COLOMBO

    MARGARITA COLOMBO TAOWAY

    Messages:
    25
    Likes:
    9
    I am having the same incredible results (several hours after) taking regular Azantac, Magnesia Milk and Triphala (indian herb mixture), the latest only for bowel movements in case I need extra help. I know it´s not a sustainble cure because these medicines alter the flora balance. In fact years ago after taking only magnesia milk for 2 years I got a polip in my stomach. I would use these only for emergencies and following christmas time I will try to find an alternative way to rebullid PH balance.
    My energy level is at 100, brain función also 100, and this has happened to me for aprox 10 days in a row, there is not doubt digestive system is the issue, but I have never been able to feel so well with only diet changes.
     
  12. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

    Messages:
    837
    Likes:
    165
    I took allergy research groups russian choice rhamnosus lysate powder.

    No I don't normally get colds or sick. I took six capsules twice.

    This morning I have woken up still feeling better than I normally would. I have had similar, yet nowhere near as strong a reaction with probiotics before but it did not last.

    However it more and more things are pointing towards the gut even though I don't have any gut symptoms.

    The product is apparently the broken up shells of the rhamnosus powder and acts on the immune system and the bacteria at least when alive, kills streptococcus which I have an overgrowth of.

    The websites that sell the product have an interesting description about how it works if someone more computer able can post it here.
     
    Wayne and Adlyfrost like this.
  13. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

    Messages:
    837
    Likes:
    165
    What Is azantac? How do these things work? Can't find much info on them. Thanks
     
  14. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes:
    2,952
    Couchland, USA
    http://www.pureprescriptions.com/russian-choice-immune-allergy-research-group/p532

    Excerpt:
     
  15. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

    Messages:
    365
    Likes:
    189
    Interesting that you had such a quick and strong reaction. Please let us know if it lasts.
     
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,115
    Likes:
    2,967
    It seems that the name of the ingredient in this Allergy Research Russian choice rhamnosus lysate powder supplement is Lactobacillus rhamnosus cell lysate, which is composed of peptides derived from the cell wall of Lactobacillus rhamnosus bacteria.

    Another brand of the same product is Del-Immune V, and on their website I found the following text:


    Some research papers on Del-Immune V are found here.

    Some excerpts from these research papers are as follows:

    ➤ Research paper: Del-Immune V Profile.

    Note that several the cytokines Del-Immune V stimulates (the ones I put in bold) are the Th1 cytokines, which of course are desirable for ME/CFS, as ME/CFS patients need to boost their Th1 cytokines in order to get better.

    Just a quick reminder:
    Th1 cytokines are: IL-2, IL-12, IFN-γ
    Th2 cytokines are: IL-4, IL-10


    ➤ Research paper: Study of Interferonogenous Activity of the New Probiotic Formulation Del-Immune V (A better pdf version of this document can be found here.)

    This study found that Del-Immune V Lactobacillus rhamnosus lysate induces interferon alpha and interferon gamma.

    But although Del-Immune V induced higher levels of interferon than Bifidobacterium bifidum bacteria, presumably a Bifidobacterium bifidum probiotic might be almost as good as Del-Immune V?



    ➤ Analysis: An Analytical Comparison of Del-Immune V® and Russian Choice Immune

    The conclusion here is that there are some important differences between these two Lactobacillus rhamnosus cell lysate supplements:

    Del-Immune V contained at least three times more protein than Russian Choice Immune.
    Del-Immune V contained more than 100 times the DNA than the Russian Choice Immune capsules.

    More info regarding the comparison of the two products: Russian Choice Immune vs Del-Immune V is found here.



    I also found this study: Lactobacillus rhamnosus cell lysate in the management of resistant childhood atopic eczema.

    This study found that Lactobacillus rhamnosus cell lysate provides a substantial improvement in eczema skin symptoms.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  17. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

    Messages:
    2,881
    Likes:
    2,011
    UK
    @Hip
    my heads a bit woozy this morning (must have been all that alcohol I didn't drink!!!) can you just tell me what this bit means from your post. Thanks


    "Note that several the cytokines Del-Immune V stimulates (the ones I put in bold) are the Th1 cytokines, which of course are desirable for ME/CFS, as ME/CFS patients need to boost their Th2 cytokines in order to get better"

    I' m going to get my test results out later on see which cytokines I had tested and if I can make sense if it.
     
  18. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

    Messages:
    356
    Likes:
    171
    Hi Knackers,

    You may be interested in this study ......

    http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT00756262?view=results

    Lactobacillus rhamnosus LGG is being investigated as a method of removing gut pathogens ....
     
    merylg, Jools and maryb like this.
  19. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes:
    4,396
    Cornwall, UK
    A couple of of the exclusion criteria seem problematic for some of us:
    • Presence of an active bowel leak, acute abdomen, active intestinal disease, or significant bowel dysfunction
    • Known or suspected allergies to...milk protein
    The leaky gut protocol used by Maes, and maybe others, excludes milk, so presumably milk protein allergy - or sensitivity - is thought to play a part in leaky gut, at least for some people. (Or it may be lactose that that diet is designed to exclude.)

    Maybe this study is effectively testing a treatment for a different sub-group from that which many of us may fall into.
     
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,115
    Likes:
    2,967
    My head also... terrible thing this teetotal business!

    Basically, the research shows that Lactobacillus rhamnosus cell lysate supplements increase the Th1 mode of the immune system.

    The Th1 mode is needed in ME/CFS patients, in order to fight off the viral and intracellular infections in ME/CFS.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page