The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Huge energy today with Grapefruit and Ubiquinol (Coenzyme Q10). We'll see about tomorrow.

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by BeautifulDay, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. BeautifulDay

    BeautifulDay Senior Member

    Messages:
    213
    Likes:
    673
    Once in while there is a day that stands out where I just have more energy. Generally, there is no rhyme or reason - just the stars aligning. Today was one of those days. The only difference being that instead of cutting up an orange and eating the pieces with breakfast and lunch, today I cut up a grapefruit instead of an orange. I also take my prescription for MitoMix with 300 mg of Ubiquinol at breakfast and also lunch.

    A half hour before lunch I had so much energy, I had to Google to see if there was any study that showed a relationship between grapefruit and ubiquinol (coenzyme Q10). To my surprise there was. A study out of Japan and published in Food Chemistry in 2010 found that "We have demonstrated that a higher cellular uptake of CoQ10 was achieved in the presence of grapefruit juice." The uptake was increased by almost 50%.

    Here is a link to an article on the study.
    https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2010/01/15/Grapefruit-juice-may-boost-CoQ10-uptake-Study#

    Here is a link to the study.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030881460901245X

    First, a warning to those taking any medications, including statins. Please make sure you are allowed to eat grapefruit or drink grapefruit juice. There are many medications where the interaction if very negative with prescriptions. Here is an FDA article on drug interactions with grapefruit and why it occurs.
    https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm292276.htm

    In the afternoon when I again had grapefruit slices with my ubiquinol -- there was another huge boost of energy. It might just be coincidental, but imagine I was able to do an afternoon run to the grocery store, pick up our youngest munchkin from school and do a load of dishes and three loads of laundry in the afternoon. That never happens. I'm usually crawling up the stairs in the afternoon. Literally crawling.

    I bought 4 more grapefruit to continue the experiment tomorrow. 1 for each of the next 4 days. It might just be coincidental. I'll let you know how the experiment goes. If it goes well, then I have to figure out how to get the kids to drink or eat grapefruit. It's not their favorite.
     
  2. ryan31337

    ryan31337 Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    Likes:
    1,036
    South East, England
    I hope it happens again!

    And good call on the drug warning. Grapefruit is a no-no for me on Ivabradine (POTS treatment).

    Ryan
     
  3. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes:
    1,618
    Yes, it's amazing! I have already quoted this in October:


    you may experiment the same benefit if you raise your Ubiquinol intake and in case you take Vit E, not to take it at the same time.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/ubiquinol-versus-ubiquinone-a-recent-article.55480/

    The problem is that Grapefruit also interfers with many drugs metabolism via cytochrome P450 blockage (CYP3A4)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit–drug_interactions
     
  4. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes:
    198
    Holland
    @BeautifulDay , so happy for you, hope this repeats itself.

    Good you're warning, not only for people that take medication though.

    I've problems with the liverfunction in that department without even taking medication... grapefruit makes me ill.
    But later on I will try the ubiquinol, see what it does for me
     
    BeautifulDay likes this.
  5. BeautifulDay

    BeautifulDay Senior Member

    Messages:
    213
    Likes:
    673
    Update: I'm now a few days into the grapefruit routine with the ubiquinol. Today has been the best day yet. I'm still having lay downs between bringing laundry up from the basement, but now I get a second wind and am back up in 10 minutes. That never happens. Generally, it's a load of laundry up the steps and then such pain and exhaustion that I can't get anything else done.

    This morning, I went to both BJs and Costco to compare prices on paper towels. That never happens. Generally, I pull together enough energy to go to BJs once every two weeks (or once a month). Two in a day to compare prices is unheard of in the last decade. I'd never waste energy visiting stores to comparison price shop.

    Then this afternoon, I went to the vitamin store. I don't go to any stores in the afternoon unless the kids don't have food for tomorrows lunches. Generally, I can't get out of bed in the afternoons. Then I came home from the vitamin store, did a load of dishes, made brownies with our youngest, and then went back out to Boscov's because they are having a sale on women's Glidan V neck shirts for $3.99 each. I bought 4 different colors. Generally, any shopping in the morning, but I prefer to online shop to preserve energy.

    It could be just one of those flukes and not really the combo of grapefruit with ubiquinol. It will really take several weeks (and then months) to convince me. The problem when there is an upturn in energy is that it feels so good and is generally so fleeting. I want it to stay.

    Nobody would say I have normal energy right now with all my lay downs in between. Yet, I'm actually getting things accomplished.
     
  6. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes:
    198
    Holland
    @BeautifulDay , I'm so happy for you, must be so nice to be able to actually do something, enjoy but don't overdo yourself.

    I dream of the day I'll be able to some shopping for myself ;)
     
    BeautifulDay likes this.
  7. Alvin2

    Alvin2 If humans were rational...

    Messages:
    1,327
    Likes:
    3,690
    That is incredible. I wonder if grapefruit juice would work as well as the fruit.
    Next time i get a chance and money i'll try this myself, get some Q10 and grapefruit :)
     
    BeautifulDay likes this.
  8. cb2

    cb2 Senior Member

    Messages:
    324
    Likes:
    130
    This is exciting to read congratulations.! What kind of ubiquinol are you taking ? Also, do you think it could be the mito mix and the grapefruit? Or certain it is just the ubiquinol grape fruit? So much grapefruit? How much?ubiquinol?

    I never had a palate for grapefruit, but this makes me want to try. Even though it's not my easy on my taste buds.

    Thanks and enjoy
     
    BeautifulDay likes this.
  9. cb2

    cb2 Senior Member

    Messages:
    324
    Likes:
    130
    How do you feel in the morning when you wake up ? Wondering if the if you're starting to have a lasting effect from the great fruit and the ubiquinol.? I think it takes time to build up our mitochondrial reserves so you might want to pace until you get a big charge on your mito battery. I had a doctor tell me once to increase activity in 10 percent increments every 2 weeks as able, of course
     
    BadBadBear and BeautifulDay like this.
  10. researcher

    researcher

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    27
    This is great. I love how CFSers are experimenting and getting results. I will have this into account when starting my CoQ10. Please continue to report on the results.

    Love.
     
    BeautifulDay and Sundancer like this.
  11. BeautifulDay

    BeautifulDay Senior Member

    Messages:
    213
    Likes:
    673
    Alvin2 likes this.
  12. researcher

    researcher

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    27
  13. BeautifulDay

    BeautifulDay Senior Member

    Messages:
    213
    Likes:
    673
    In the studies on MitoD patients, some patients see a difference in energy with Coenzyme Q10 supplementation and some do not. Right now I'm on the pharmaceutical grade ubiquinol, so I'm not sure which one since my compounding pharmacy mixes Ubiquinol and Riboflavin in a bottle with bubble gum flavor.

    Before I was on pharmacy ubiquinol, I saw an improvement with Kaneka CoQ10 (it doesn't say ubiquinol on my label). When my mail is late with my prescription, this is the one I use to hold me over. However, there are other brands where I didn't see a bump in energy from a brand saying ubiquinol on the label. My Mito doc said there is a huge difference between quality and quantity. There are a few labs that do testing, but they don't get it down to the details I want to see. For example, this lab tests for CoQ10, but it doesn't differentiate between ubiquinol, kaneka, etc... https://labdoor.com/rankings/coq10

    I'd like to find the cheapest one that works for me because I never know when insurance will stop paying for my (and my kids) MitoMix. I get a letter from the insurance company once in a while stating that they are going to stop paying for it after this months, and then I get another letter from them stating they'll pay for another 3 months. It's like a little tease from the insurance company to keep me on my toes here and there.

    Adding in in the Coenzyme Q10 (the ones that worked for me, whether Kaneka or pharmacy ubiquinol - prior to adding in grapefruit), It wasn't a crazy change, but I began to be up for dinner with the family in the evenings and I began to be able to do evening dishes after dinner and not have to wait until the morning for energy to do the dishes.

    I am the typical mito person with the most energy in the morning and decreasing throughout the day. But Mito patients differ amongst themselves even in families. Naps and pacing would help me prior to CoQ10, but I wouldn't say I got a second wind. When I was younger, my energy pattern could have been described as a second wind later in the day. But from mid 40's on, no second wind (until now with the grapefruit).

    So I saw a jump in energy with just the CoQ10 of some brands by itself without the grapefruit. But adding in the grapefruit has made a much larger bump than just the CoQ10 without the grapefruit.

    Right now my prescription ubiquinol is at 300 mg twice a day. My energy seems to be improving a little every day. I've begun to postpone my ubiquinol and 1/2 grapefruit and some tomato soup for a mid morning snack. I seem to have enough energy now to get until then. Yes, it does seem that there is a build up in energy from the combo and everyday I can last a little longer.

    I found that having my second serving of ubiquinol with a half of grapefruit just prior to mid afternoon laydown keeps me going pretty long into the day right now.

    I should add, I have a cup of coffee with breakfast and another one mid afternoon. However, I was up to 3 cups a day and recently dropped to two cups because the combo with ubiquinol/grapefruit seemed to make me slightly jittery and my heart run a little too fast. It's back to not jittery and not racing with just the two cups well paced out.

    Things I've seen change. We have a trashcan in the basement next to the dryer for lint and old clothes. Nobody empties that can but me. Yesterday I noticed it was full, overflowing with dryer fuzzies all over the floor. Generally, it's not worth wasting my energy to pick it up. However, I went upstairs, got another trash bag, pushed all the fuzzies into the old bag, went upstairs and took the full bag outside to the garbage can, came back in and went back downstairs to continue to do laundry.

    This is happening all over the house. My piles are just beginning to go down. There are ten years of piles. It's like the rings of trees. The farther down into the piles the more old memories. People who don't know would look at the piles and think I'm lazy or depressed. It's neither. When I have energy I'm so happy and excited to tackle them.

    We have been lucky to have a cleaning person who does basics like toilets and floors (between piles) each week. So the house is clean (with piles). Sometimes I watch those shows with the people who are seen as hoarders. I wonder if some of them are actually severely fatigued.

    Another change. I tackled our 8 year old daughter's room yesterday. I was able to do 3/4 of it yesterday. I moved and vacuumed under the mattress. I pulled things out from under her bureau. I vacuumed under her bureau. I washed her mattress pad and sheets. OMG it's so lovely to have some energy. Again with rests. But really 10 minutes down seems to be what's needed most times.

    One day at a time. There are a dozen years of stuff to catch up on. And I still don't know if it's the combo of ubiquinol and grapefruit. But whatever it is, I sure hope it stays.
     
    Alvin2, BadBadBear and Sundancer like this.
  14. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes:
    198
    Holland
    yep, how I relate to that.

    happy for you @BeautifulDay
     
    BeautifulDay likes this.
  15. BeautifulDay

    BeautifulDay Senior Member

    Messages:
    213
    Likes:
    673
    I do believe it's building up. When I'm at my best I walk on the treadmill, not holding on to the rails at 3.6 mph for an hour. I haven't been able to reach that mountain top (speed, length of time, not holding on) in a decade. That's the last time I could reach that. It's not from pushing exercise when I'm fatigued. One can't reach it that way. It's when the stars are aligned and slowly increasing if one feels well enough.

    Lately I've been at 2.8 mph for 10 minute increments, not usually adding to more than 30 minutes total. And I've been holding on. With the addition of grapefruit, I'm now at two 30 minutes of increments, at 3.0 mph. I can let go and not hold on for 30 seconds at a time. During those 30 minutes of holding on, no low pulse pressure bouts and no crazy hypoglycemia. Things seem to be stabilizing. If I don't hold on, I still get the dizzies while walking. Also I can't stand still or low pulse pressure comes in.

    Doctors think that they can push us with exercise to force us to feel good. Nope. When we have the energy our body craves movement. I wish they would get this.

    I'm really trying to hold back so I don't crash from overuse. I'm doing the 10 minute lay downs even when 5 might do. I've been forcing the full hour lay down, but no longer falling asleep.
     
    Sundancer, pattismith and Alvin2 like this.
  16. BeautifulDay

    BeautifulDay Senior Member

    Messages:
    213
    Likes:
    673
    I'm doing some basic research on grapefruit. For those who are interested, here are a few interesting snipits on grapefruit. They bounce around.

    "Delivery of therapeutic agents by nanoparticles made of grapefruit-derived lipids":
    "Abstract
    Although the use of nanotechnology for the delivery of a wide range of medical treatments has potential to reduce adverse effects associated with drug therapy, tissue-specific delivery remains challenging. Here we show that nanoparticles made of grapefruit-derived lipids, which we call grapefruit-derived nanovectors, can deliver chemotherapeutic agents, short interfering RNA, DNA expression vectors and proteins to different types of cells. We demonstrate the in vivo targeting specificity of grapefruit-derived nanovectors by co-delivering therapeutic agents with folic acid, which in turn leads to significantly increasing targeting efficiency to cells expressing folate receptors. The therapeutic potential of grapefruit-derived nanovectors was further demonstrated by enhancing the chemotherapeutic inhibition of tumour growth in two tumour animal models. Grapefruit-derived nanovectors are less toxic than nanoparticles made of synthetic lipids and, when injected intravenously into pregnant mice, do not pass the placental barrier, suggesting that they may be a useful tool for drug delivery."
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2886

    "Molecular mechanisms behind the accumulation of ATP and H2O2 in citrus plants in response to ‘Candidatus Liberibacter asiaticus’ infection":
    "Abstract. Candidatus Liberibacter asiaticus (Las) is a fastidious, phloem-restricted pathogen with a significantly reduced genome, and attacks all citrus species with no immune cultivars documented to date. Like other plant bacterial pathogens, Las deploys effector proteins into the organelles of plant cells, such as mitochondria and chloroplasts to manipulate host immunity and physiology. These organelles are responsible for the synthesis of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and have a critical role in plant immune signaling during hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) production. In this study, we investigated H2O2 and ATP accumulation in relation to citrus huanglongbing (HLB) in addition to revealing the expression profiles of genes critical for the production and detoxification of H2O2 and ATP synthesis. We also found that as ATP and H2O2 concentrations increased in the leaf, so did the severity of the HLB symptoms, a trend that remained consistent among the four different citrus varieties tested. Furthermore, the upregulation of ATP synthase, a key enzyme for energy conversion, may contribute to the accumulation of ATP in infected tissues, whereas downregulation of the H2O2 detoxification system may cause oxidative damage to plant macromolecules and cell structures. This may explain the cause of some of the HLB symptoms such as chlorosis or leaf discoloration. The findings in this study highlight important molecular and physiological mechanisms involved in the host plants’ response to Las infection and provide new targets for interrupting the disease cycle."
    https://www.nature.com/articles/hortres201740

    "Grapefruit and its biomedical, antigenotoxic and chemopreventive properties":
    "Highlights
    •A number of pharmacological activities exerted by grapefruit were described.
    •The health relevance of grapefruit juice interaction with medications was analyzed.
    •The antigenotoxic and chemopreventive potential of grapefruit was described and discussed.
    •It was shown that grapefruit may act as antioxidant, a modifier of cellular transporters, or as a CYP isoenzyme modulator.
    Abstract
    Grapefruit (Citrus paradisi Mcfad) is a perenifolium tree 5–6 m high with a fruit of about 15 cm in diameter, protected by the peel we can find about 11–14 segments (carpels), each of which is surrounded by a membrane and each containing the juice sacs, as well as the seeds. The fruit is made up of numerous compounds, and is known to have nutritive value because of the presence of various vitamins and minerals, among other chemicals. The fruit is also used in the field of gastronomy. Information has been accumulated regarding the participation of the fruit structures in a variety of biomedical, antigenotoxic and chemopreventive effects, surely related with the presence of the numerous chemicals that have been determined to constitute the fruit. Such studies have been carried out in different in vitro and in vivo experimental models, and in a few human assays. The information published so far has shown interesting results, therefore, the aims of the present review are to initially examine the main characteristics of the fruit, followed by systematization of the acquired knowledge concerning the biomedical, antigenotoxic and chemopreventive effects produced by the three main structures of the fruit: peel, seed, and pulp."
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691517307809

    "Antioxidant dietary approach in treatment of fatty liver: New insights and updates":
    "Abstract. Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is a common clinicopathological condition, encompassing a range of conditions caused by lipid deposition within liver cells. To date, no approved drugs are available for the treatment of NAFLD, despite the fact that it represents a serious and growing clinical problem in the Western world. Identification of the molecular mechanisms leading to NAFLD-related fat accumulation, mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative balance impairment facilitates the development of specific interventions aimed at preventing the progression of hepatic steatosis. In this review, we focus our attention on the role of dysfunctions in mitochondrial bioenergetics in the pathogenesis of fatty liver. Major data from the literature about the mitochondrial targeting of some antioxidant molecules as a potential treatment for hepatic steatosis are described and critically analysed. There is ample evidence of the positive effects of several classes of antioxidants, such as polyphenols (i.e., resveratrol, quercetin, coumestrol, anthocyanins, epigallocatechin gallate and curcumin), carotenoids (i.e., lycopene, astaxanthin and fucoxanthin) and glucosinolates (i.e., glucoraphanin, sulforaphane, sinigrin and allyl-isothiocyanate), on the reversion of fatty liver. Although the mechanism of action is not yet fully elucidated, in some cases an indirect interaction with mitochondrial metabolism is expected. We believe that such knowledge will eventually translate into the development of novel therapeutic approaches for fatty liver."
    "..... Resveratrol (trans-3,4’,5-trihydroxystilbene) is a stilbene naturally found in various food stuffs, such as grapes, berries, red wine and nuts. This molecule has been shown to control energetic metabolism in obese mice, improving the glucose homeostasis, increasing the fatty acid oxidation and inducing the expression of genes associated with the regulation of mitochondrial biogenesis[43,44]. The effects of high resveratrol doses (10-100 μmol/L) on mitochondrial metabolism have been evaluated in different models where it has been shown that resveratrol is able to increase the number of mitochondria in the tissues studied, and that this occurs via a sirtuin-dependent mechanism."
    ".....Lycopene is a carotenoid that lacks provitamin A activity and is responsible for the red to pink colours seen in tomatoes, red grapefruit, watermelon and apricots.
    Epidemiological and experimental studies have suggested that lycopene may have chemopreventive properties against certain types of cancers, including NASH-promoted hepatocarcinogenesis, mainly as a consequence of oxidative stress decrease, which could be imparted through different mechanisms[73]. Moreover, lycopene also reduces the development of hepatic steatosis induced by an HF diet[74]. The key role of this carotenoid in protection against fatty liver was confirmed by the reduced plasma lycopene levels in subjects affected by NASH, suggesting a possible link between low lycopene levels and the development of liver diseases[75]."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5483489/
     
    Sundancer and PinkPanda like this.
  17. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

    Messages:
    515
    Likes:
    689
    South east England
    Interesting stuff @BeautifulDay and well done for finding all the info and posting it.
     
    BeautifulDay and voner like this.
  18. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

    Messages:
    515
    Likes:
    689
    South east England
    In TCM grapefruit is used to improve digestion and has a cooling effect.
     
    BeautifulDay likes this.
  19. BeautifulDay

    BeautifulDay Senior Member

    Messages:
    213
    Likes:
    673
    I know little of traditional Chinese medicine. Thanks to your tip I'm reading up on their beliefs regarding grapefruit and trying to follow it through to the studies.

    Thanks!
     
  20. cb2

    cb2 Senior Member

    Messages:
    324
    Likes:
    130
    You have inspired me to eat grapefruit and take more of the Kaneka coQ10 I have. we'll see what happens!
    i am amazed you are walking on a treadmill and getting to and through you piles.

    I really appreciate they way you described the piles - I can relate. I know it feels so good to be moving through them.
    i had 1/2 grapefruit and 300 coQ10 a couple hours ago. i did get some things done, about 20mins worth and now taking a rest break. I am gonna keep on with this. thanks for the encouragement!
     
    BeautifulDay likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page