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how XMRV might cause autoimmune disease

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by fresh_eyes, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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    (Sorry if this thread is a bit repetitive on my part - I think most people missed the last time I posted this, due to my bad thread title.:) Seems pretty important & worth repeating.)

    They're looking into whether XMRV might trigger endogenous retroviruses (old retroviruses thought to be defunct, which make up 8% or so of the human genome); Dr Luckett explains here how this might cause an autoimmune response, where the body attacks its own cells:

    "This is significant, in that XMRV could induce the translation of endogenous retroelements - of which there are over 7,000 on the human genome -which human cells do not have the machinery to transform them into proteins (no human promoter can activate them), leading to the expression of foreign proteins on the surface of human cells, which makes the immune system recognize these cells as foreign."

    (Full post here: http://cfidsresearch.blogspot.com/2009/11/raltegravir-is-likely-effective-against.html)

    This fits with the previous discussion about endogenous retroviruses:

    "We think that the problem is that CFS is a collection of many, many different diseases even though it has similar symptoms," says Brigitte Huber, a professor of pathology at Tufts University's Sackler School of Graduate Biomedical Sciences in Boston. She and others suspect that the retrovirus may be unleashing other underlying conditions and viruses in the body.

    "This new retrovirus may be able, through infecting human cells, [to] induce a transcription of an endogenous virus," says Huber, who has been studying the presence of an ancient retrovirus (HERV-K18) dormant in most people but active in patients with CFS and multiple sclerosis. "We've already shown that Epstein-Barr virus can do exactly this."

    Even in their testing for the XMRV retrovirus, Mikovits says, "We could see a human endogenous virus at the same time" as XMRV. "There are a number of old diseases that seem to be rising at an infectious rate," she says. Although this background noise of various viruses may be difficult to sort though, it brings clues to help researchers find the root cause of CFS. "It's possible, downstream, that this will all feed into the same mechanism," Huber says.


    (The full article is here http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=chronic-fatigue-syndrome-retrovirus)

    If this proves to be true, it really does open up a whole new branch of medicine. As someone else said on these boards, it's either Nobel Prize or laughingstock within a year. The suspense is killing me.
     
  2. starryeyes

    starryeyes Senior Member

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    That's amazing information, fresh eyes. I'm glad you started a new thread. :)

    What are we to think now? One thing that I quoted in another thread that seems to fit in with this is from Cort's article about Dr. Peterson's talk last year. Dr. Peterson says that when tested, PWC have 30 to 50 viruses in their bodies at one time and on the video he says most of them are Human Herpes Viruses of all kinds. He states that Controls had 3 to 4 viruses in them and they were like Adeno viruses or something which is more like common cold stuff.

    :( This is making me feel terrible. We gotta know what's really going on though. Fibromyalgia has always felt autoimmune to me and CFS has always felt like an AIDS-related retrovirus plus I always feel like I'm fighting at least one flu if not two at a time along with a cold all the time.

    The thing is, if you try to explain to anyone that CFS and FMS feel like this, they think you're exaggerating, especially the doctors.

    But I think now that what these illnesses have felt like all along is turning out to be exactly what they are. I feel like saying, "Give it to me straight, Doc, how long have I got?" except we know that we can carry on like this for decades.
     
  3. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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    Hi teej! :eek:

    Exactly. And it begins to seem that XMRV as the "puppetmaster" could potentially explain it all, from triggering latent herpesviruses to the autoimmune-seeming symptoms. Fascinating.
     
  4. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting again

    ...that's very interesing!

    I have ANAs......have never been sure if or how they're related to ME/CFS, or if I've been unfortunate enough to have another condition to add to the collection.

    Dr Luckett must be wondering what's up with all the extra hits to his blog! I like that blog...it's in bite size pieces. Nutrient dense pieces ;)
     
  5. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    More than wondering. Dr. Luckett joined the forum yesterday and made a few posts here last night. I hope he comes back. There are some questions cycling around here that he might be able to answer.
     
  6. starryeyes

    starryeyes Senior Member

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    I like Dr. Luckett's name. :) The doctor who finally diagnosed me with Chronic EBV after my run around with many other doctors was named Dr. Charm.

    "Always has to be Lucky Charms"♣

    I like that description!~
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    hi

    Im invovled in a study in australia about to start soon about cfs and possible autoimmune disease. The scientist running the study has links to dr klimas, might be where it all ties together.
     
  8. ramakentesh

    ramakentesh Senior Member

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    The problem with the herpes viruses and EBV is that many people also have latent infections of these viruses without any of the manifestations associated with CFS.

    Certainly there is evidence that fibromyalgia is an auto immune ilness - its more common in people who suffer systemic rheumatic diseases, more common in certain histocompatibilities HLA B27 as an example, has been associated with increased tumour necrosis factor alpha and substance P. Ofcourse the amount of time spent on looking for auto-antibodies for this condition is pathetically low. Upregulation of substance P release or receptor reception would be attractive future study directions in my mind - perhaps auto antibodies that occupy receptors sensitive to substance P might explain some of the findings.

    The confusion lies in the fact that fibro patients also clearly exhibit sympathetic overactivity - infact so do most CFS patients. then again autonomic disfunction is found in Rheumatoid arthritis and ankylosing spondylitis so this might explain it to some degree, although in CFS and Fibro it appears to be more prominent and infact a cardinal symptom.
     
  9. ramakentesh

    ramakentesh Senior Member

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    Potentially a latent virus that is able to hide from the immune system could spark all myriad of aberrant molecular mimicry. It could be the puppet master. It could be causing chronic inflammation that results in abnormal autonomic control through angiotensin II mediated depletion of neuronal nitric oxide.
    It could be causing epigenetic changes to the genes that regulate normal immune system function, or autonomic control.

    What we can conclude is that the science is still in its infancy, that the answer will most likely be complex and surprising (given that modern medicine is yet to explain the cause of essential hypertension) and may be quite different to current 'opinion'/'speculation' in modern CFS science which tends to be littered with underfunded and as a consequence unproven causal mechanisms that some people adhere to with surprising faith.
     
  10. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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    Hi heapsreal - very interesting! Can you tell more about the study?
     
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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  12. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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    Thanks heapsreal. That's so interesting. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention on there of CFS/ME, just ALS, Parkinson's, and MS - do you have another condition(s), or are they including CFS/ME in the study?
     
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    hi

    I know it doesnt mention cfs, dont know why. But when calling for people to participate in the study they asked people who have cfs and we filled out a questionaire(feduka criteria ?). Suppose they are thinking cfs is covered in neurological related conditions.

    Sonia Marshall is the one carrying out the study, i will link to her profile, at the top of her current research grants is titled, Validation of novel biomarkers for CFS/ME.
    http://apps.bond.edu.au/staff/profile.asp?s_id=184

    She has done a number of other interesting studies eg testosterone therapy and natural killer cells, a quick glance seems testosterone increases natural killer cells, so not all hormones maybe detrimental to xmrv. From my past readings, testosterone has an almost opposite effect to cortisol, which they are saying can be detrimental to retroviruses.

    I can also remember reading about aids patients and how anabolic steriods were used to stop muscle wasting, this was also found to increase benificial activity of the immune system.

    Its all interesting, just hope a cure is around the corner.
     

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