Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
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How to restore depleted gluathione?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Changexpert, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    To my understanding, glutathione is consumed when the body is under severe stress from either physical or mental trauma. After going through two surgeries in the past two years and severe mental/physical trauma, it seems like my body has depleted glutathione reserve. So it seems like my methylation cycle is blocked from depleted glutathione, which has led to gut problems, more adrenal issue, and mitochondrial dysfunction. Also, antibiotics that were given after each surgery tanked the gut health, further depleting glutathione resulting in a vicious cycle.

    So one protocol I came up with was to supplement with reduced glutathione that contains precursors of glutathione, which are glutamate, glycine, and cysteine. Unfortunately, I have become more and more sensitive to thiol (sulfur) and every time I take cysteine, my body would flare up and start itching everywhere. It looks like I am trapped in this vicious cycle! Is there any other ways to increase gluathione level in the body without taking supplements that contain thiol? (ALA, cysteine, p5p, MSM, taurine, B6, NAC, etc)

    ps: I am still reading Freddd's stance on glutathione level. If you have had negative reactions to gluathione, please share it with me. Thanks.
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Off the top of my head:

    Folate cycle: 5-MTHF, B2, B3 (or NADH)
    Methionine synthase: Methyl-B12, P5P, TMG
    Some cofactors: zinc, magnesium, choline

    Energy/mitochondria support: NADH, Adeno-B12, Carnitine

    cheers
     
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  3. Gamboa

    Gamboa Senior Member

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    I'm in the same boat regarding depleted glutathione and I also don't know what to do about it. My latest naturopath ( I'm having trouble finding one that knows much about ME/CFS) said to take NAC. The problem with this is that if you have a problem with sulfur, which I think I do, this is bad. I have done 23andme genetic analysis and know my methylation problems and according to Yasko's theories I should avoid NAC and other sulfur containing food and supplements. My naturopath is very knowledgeable about methylation theories but disagrees with some of Yasko's ideas, particularly the sulfur issue.

    I was also doing the methylation protocol (methylcobalamine and folate) and felt terrible so after a month of that I stopped and felt much better. Now I am just taking NAC with mitochondrial supplements and feel OK ( as OK as I can with this darn illness!)

    Last summer I went for a couple of IV's with a different naturopath. She added glutathione to the mix. After the first one I felt great for a week. After the second one, a few weeks later, I felt terrible and never went back. Not sure whether to recommend this route either.
     
  4. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    After restoring B2, B3, B6, methylfolate and B12 - my body seems to be making glutathione again.

    It took a lot of trial and error - and I haven't completely figured it out yet. I had to repair damaged cell membranes (NT Factor Energy Lipids) and get sufficient B vitamins in me to allow the cycle to start working again.

    I found keeping doses of basic Bs (B1, B2. B3) fairly low is helpful in not over-driving the cycle. Methylfolate is extremely powerful and I am currently experimenting with lower doses.

    I found supplementing glutathione (or NAC) was not damaging or harmful. You can find thousands of reports and supplement reviews online from doctors and patients who find it helpful. You can also find a few reports of people who were worsened. I would suggest going slow to find out how it affects you.

    Getting your body's glutathione production working again is much better than supplementing liposomal glutathione, in my opinion. Feels much better and longer lasting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  5. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    Thanks for the response Sherpa. The problem I have is that I am overly sensitive to methyl supplements (mb12, methylfolate) as well as sulfur group supplements (glutathione, NAC). I am waiting to hear back from 23andme in regards to my genetic profile, but have two hypothesis as a cause.

    1. I have some kind of genetic combination that's resulting in thiol and methyl sensitivity. I honestly don't know what combination would result in this.

    2. Mercury toxicity leading to negative reactions from thiol groups (mercury relocation without chelating) and methylation (skin rashes, hair loss).

    I think 2 is more likely because I also have muscle/facial twitching, orthostatic hypotension (blacking out when standing up suddenly), and messed up gut. I am not 100% positive though.
     
  6. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    You may try with folinic acid and hydroxy-B12, in small doses and see how you're doing. If you seem to tolerate them you could gradually increase the dosage and see if your improve.

    Both supplements should be easier for people with "methyl-intolerance".

    cheers
     
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  7. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    @Changexpert Sensitivity to methylfolate and methyl B12 might, in some cases, be caused by the MAO A R297R +/+ mutation. This can be addressed with B2. There are likely many other things that can cause it also. Just look out for that one on your test results.
     
  8. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    I have taken folic acid 200 mcg and 6 mcg of cyb12 (not hb12) and they are tolerated much better. However, based on Freddd, I think that folic acid is blocking my b12 receptors, causing a partial block. I know that folinic acid is more potent as they have been converted a few times already from folic acid, but Freddd was against using this form as well. Is there advantage in using folinic acid? Same question for hb12. Could you please elaborate the thoughts behind this protocol?
     
  9. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    Interesting. I saw the 'B2 I Love You' thread and was amazed how B2 is not absorbed easily unless taken by itself. I will look into MAO mutation. Also, wouldn't CBS +/+ and SUOX +/+ cause thiol sensitivity along with COMT +/+ causing methyl sensitivity?
     
  10. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    Yes, folinic acid "helps to supply forms of folate that will make up for the low tetrahydrofolate resulting from the block in methionine synthase, until this is corrected." There is said to be some advantage in having other forms on hand than L-5-MTHF.

    The advantage in using gentler forms is that your body will control the rate of methylation. In my caase my glutathione was so low that taking hydroxycobalmin had virtually no effect - it didn't seem to be converted into anything my body can use.

    I am finally seeing results (restoring glutathione production) with some of Freddd's idea (active forms, learning to spot deficiencies) with some of Rich's ideas (lower doses, trying to drive and not 'overdrive')... some of Yasko's (her All-inOne supplement is very gentle and helpful) ideas, some of Dr. Lynch's ideas. I don't feel that any one researcher has the 'complete picture' that applies to everyone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
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  11. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    This document shows hot to lift the methylation cycle block and boost glutathione based on hard numbers. Table 1 shows the results.
    http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/w...Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf

    In my own case after just 6 months when I tested again my GSH was normalised.
    Regarding your sensitivity to thiols and reactions you described, I'd test for mercury.
    here you'll find information on how to test for mercury
    http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/w...Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf

    If it isn't immune intolerance, which may develop over time, bad reactions to ALA, NAC and GSH are often/usually caused by mercury toxicity.
    Best wishes.
     

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