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How to 'measure/diagnose' PEM first thing in the morning?

Discussion in 'Post-Exertional Malaise, Fatigue, and Crashes' started by hamsterman, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. hamsterman

    hamsterman

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    Just wondering if someone here has a foolproof way to diagnose if you are currently in a crash or not, like unusual heart rates? Blood Lactate levels?, etc... especially to differentiate from being sick, flare-ups from other diseases, or interactions/tapering with medication.

    Also, in the morning, I generally always feel bad, so it can be tough to diagnose. For example, yesterday was a bad PEM day, and this morning... I felt bad, but better than yesterday... so I assumed my PEM was over... but a couple hours later, I realized the PEM was still going strong.

    The reason diagnosing this early in the day would be valuable to me, is so I could plan my day better. On PEM days... I need to just hibernate; on non-PEM days... I can get simple tasks done... and my brain-fog isnt too severe.
     
  2. Sidney

    Sidney Senior Member

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    @hansterman: I agree with all you say!
    But I have never found a foolproof way of predicting any relating to PEM - except that it will come, sooner or later.
     
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  3. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    Yes, let's say you are taking care of hydration, and you have that under control (since it will raise your RHR). You will take your RHR everyday before leaving bed, when it goes up 8% you over did it, let it go back to base. If the HR goes beyond X time (for me is 2 weeks, if it hasn't gone down by then) I adjust and use it as new RHR. If you have an infection this will shoot up the RHR too. So I just wait for the bug to go away and adjust to a new number if needed.

    I got this number from the exercise philologist and works great, I am not doctor and try to monitor and see if it works for you.

    Also another good rule, when you excert, the HR should go back to resting within the hour, if it dopest't is a good sing you over did.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
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  4. Sidney

    Sidney Senior Member

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    @hamsterman: I should have mentioned this yesterday; I had been interested but never tried it because I was a bit daunted by the equipment required ! But the post is very persuasive.

    Your Crash in a Graph? How Heart Rate Variability Testing Could Help You Improve Your Health

    And Get The Naysayers Off Your Back
    from Health Rising.org

    @Inester7, thanks for useful info about the 8% - definitely doing that from now on.
     
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  5. hamsterman

    hamsterman

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    Very informative. I will look into all of this.
     
  6. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    Yes, check heart rate variability. You need a chest strap, like the polar H7, a smart phone or tablet, and a compatible software such as Elite HRV. The Elite HRV is the most commonly used and it is what I use. There is a facebook group where you can have lots of infos, it's called ME/CFS pacing with a heart rate monitor. https://www.facebook.com/groups/ME.CFS.HRM/?ref=bookmarks

    There is also a group for Elite HRV but it's for general matters on HRV, 99% of the members are healthy.
     
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  7. hamsterman

    hamsterman

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    Thanks, I went ahead and ordered it. Will try it out shortly.
     
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  8. hamsterman

    hamsterman

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    Just an update. The HRV has been a perfect indicator for me. Even when I was suffering from PEM, but my HR wasnt elevated, it would indicate I was PEMing based upon low HRV levels. And when I felt best... I had the highest levels... near 50. Thanks for the tip. :)

    I also noticed the author of the article on HRV also suffers from an auto-imune.. as do I... so I don't know if that has any factor in HRV being so highly correlated to PEM.
     
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  9. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Are there any HRV monitors that don't require the use of a smartphone or tablet?

    If not, will the most basic tablet do the job?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  10. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    I am glad HRV monitoring is helping. Use it as a pacing tool to improve your overall energy envelope. Thanks for the feedback !
     
  11. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    You need a device to capture and look at your data.

    Here is a list of compatible devices for the Elite HRV app : https://elitehrv.com/compatible-devices/
     
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  12. hamsterman

    hamsterman

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    I initially got the Amazon fire for $40.00, worked fine... but had to do some tweaking to it to get it to work. Now I'm using a smartphone, which was very easy to install. And I've decided to just keep it on all the time... I'm really passing my threshold too much... so I have to do this.
     
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  13. Sidney

    Sidney Senior Member

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    I wonder what app you are using, or what would work for HRV.

    I have a Polar H7 strap, and a Polar 360 watch, with the Polar app that comes with it/them. I had a Fitbit for a long time, which was obviously inadequate, as well as uncomfortable, and these devices are a huge improvement: but I am very slow at figuring out how to get them to do anything that I would like. A combination of age and Fog.

    (IA minor example: Daylight Saving has started today, in the US, and the watch, although paired perfectly successfully with both my ipad and iPhone , has so far refused to alter its time!!)

    I don't know whether the Polar app will even measure HRV, or how to find out; nor can I find a way of getting a (vibrate) alert for my very low anaerobic threshold. (I have entered it into the custom HR settings, but can't get any further.).

    Do I need a different app, or something more radical?

    btw, I have never been to PR on my computer before, have always used my iPad, and although i signed in here, it has made me anonymous: But I am Sidney.
     
  14. Sidney

    Sidney Senior Member

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    oh, I see.
     

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