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How to lower glutamate? Pharmacologics?

Discussion in 'Addressing Biotoxin, Chemical & Food Sensitivities' started by Thinktank, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I've recently tested high for glutamate and low for glutamine on the Nutreval test.
    My doctor advised me to start taking glutamine to heal my gut lining but i fear too much of it will convert to glutamate.
    I have severe brain fog and other cognitive issues and i suspect glutamate as being a part of the cause.
    Is there a way to raise glutamine and lower glutamate at the same time? Is there any pharmacologic substance i can test with? I live in Thailand so i can get my hands on pretty much anything without a prescription.

    Cofactors that lower glutamate are low as well. Actually all my essential and non-essential amino acids tested low / very low except glutamate (glutamic acid), γ-Aminobutyric Acid (GABA) and taurine.
    Bead Dog likes this.
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Thinktank
    NAC (N-acetylcysteine) can lower glutamate by combining with glutamate (and glycine) to produce glutathione.
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Avoid foods high in glutamate. Tc .. X
  4. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Valentijn , I'm already supplementing NAC but my glycine is low. WOuld it help to supplement with glycine as well?

    xchocoholic, already doing that :) I'm on the GAPS diet so no MSG additives in my food.
  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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  6. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Thanks for sharing the info.
    I started taking L-glutamine since yesterday as well and my brainfog was worse than usual this morning.
    At the time of testing i wasn't on any supplements! Neither did i consume any food high in glutamate or MSG. Maybe it's worth to mention that my GABA level was high in comparison to other amino acids. GABA <--> Glutamate?

    How long have you been taking L-glutamine and do you notice any benefits from it?
  7. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Glutamate is converted back to glutamine in astrocytes, via the glutamine synthetase enzyme. For this reaction, you need ATP. Are you taking any B3? B3 is an important cofactor for this enzyme.


    [​IMG]
    Lotus97 likes this.
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Yup, some people do need both :)
  9. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Dogtorj has info on glutamates in foods. Fwiw all those nuts and other high oxalate foods allowed in the gaps diet seem to
    attribute to people with leaky gut having oxalate problems. You'll see this on the yahoo
    Tryinglowoxalate board.

    Gaps allows dairy too which is considered a no no by most leaky gut experts. The DAN autism info explains this.

    tc .. X
  10. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Nope, i'm not taking B3 yet and nutreval shows i'm borderline low on it. I tried niacin from life extension a while back but that gave me a gigantic flush and it irritated my intestines.
    My krebs cycle is also a bit messed up with NO succinic acid at all and high adipic acid (fat oxidation).I guess that may have some impact on my ATP production? I'm kinda exhausted post-exercise so that may mean something.

    I just posted my nutreval results here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/my-nutreval-results-expert-comments-needed.23652/
  11. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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  12. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I'm going to read the articles you posted tomorrow morning because my brain is too far out at the moment.

    I have to say i'm on a modified GAPS-protocol. I don't eat nuts because i can't digest them, but i'll look into the oxalates thing.

    I'm also not consuming any dairy as i have high IgG scores on all dairy proteins from cows, goats, sheeps etc. Besides that my brain doesn't do well with casein.
    My gut is very leaky and i have developed high sensitivities to more than 50 common foods. :(
  13. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Why don't you try niacinamide? You are never going to get your glutamate <--> glutamine cycle running if you are low in B3.
  14. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I'm planning on taking it but i didn't know it's so important for the conversion of glutamate to glutamine.
    There's so much to fix in my body and i don't want to overdo supplementation because i know that will send me right into a crash and inflammate my guts.
    So starting with a low dose of niacinamide would be best? Combined with NADH to be sure?
  15. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    I'm not a fan of NADH. But you could try sublingual NAD.
  16. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I'm a celiac so I have leaky gut too. I've been treating this since 2005 but since gluten is literally everywhere, I'm not seeing the improvements I had hoped for. It took me 6 months to be able to eat anything without feeling like I was eating glass. I can eat more foods now but then if I eat too much of one food, I become intolerant to it. But basically, I'm functional now :) except for orthostatic intolerance and PEM.

    You may want to look at the mast cell info on this. I'm eating more foods right now and not reacting. kow .. Just to make this easy for you, those of us on the mast cell protocal take either supplements or otc allergy meds. What works for one may not work for someone else so you have to try these. From what I've read a specialist will just have you experiment with meds too. I chose allergy meds since I was having anaphylaxis. :eek: I started out with a lot of different meds, Benadryl esp and now my daily med is Walgreen's Zyrtec 5 mg several times a day. Typically 20 - 30 mg per day.

    I feel better mentally if I take Himalaya Liver Care every morning. My liver seems to need this.

    NAC supplements worked for awhile but don't anymore. I noticed NAC helping first when drinking a detox drink that had NAC in it. The first couple of bottles helped but then it's a waste of money.

    Avoiding taking chemicals that cause brain fog help too. Even 1 tsp of children's benadryl slows me down. Taking 10 mg of Zyrtec at once as opposed to 5 mg wipes me out too.

    And I've found out over the years that both having an infection and treating one turns my brain to mush. I only start feeling better once it's cleared and I have enough good bacteria back in my gut.

    Not to overwhelm you but nicotine appears to help me with brainfog / multi tasking. I can watch tv and type when I'm on this. :D If you google nicotine benefits you'll find articles on this. They're seeing success with this on Alzheimer's patients. I was smoking one cig a day and that helped so I'm now experimenting with nicorette 2 mg lozengers. Since I'm responding to a low dose, I'm going to stick with a low dose by stopping it every few days.

    hope you feel better soon ... X
  17. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Exactly. I was this way too. I could only take a few select supplements after treating my leaky gut for about 2 years. Watching my diet helped the most.

    Have you tried digestive enzymes yet ? I could only eat papaya, mango and pineapple in the beginning but now 8 years later, I take Creon, a prescription digestive enzyme, and a few Enzymedica products. I've found that Candidase and Virastop work well if food feels like it's stuck in my stomach. I use Glutenease or Country Life gluten-zyme for gluten cross contamination.

    Once I could tolerated supplements I was fine with most as long as they didn't contain my food intolerances. The supplements I'm on now I found via years of trial and error.

    Sorry for giving you so much info at one time and being such a pest. HTH ... X
  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Not sure if you're asking me, but the answer in my case is "I don't know" as I started a lot of things around the same time, but I have definitely improved a great deal.

    These are the things I am doing:
    • Cut out gluten, oats and buckwheat
    • Take grapefruit seed extract (GSE) for a week or two every so often until symptoms improved (notably bowel function)
    • Reduced intake of grains and sugar
    • Replaced sugar with xylitol
    • Take 10 g sodium bicarbonate per day
    • Take 10 g l-glutamine per day
    • Take 2 Deva Cal-Mag Plus a day to replace lost bone minerals
    • Generous salt intake
    Later added:
    • 1 Healthspan Lipo-carn (200 mg alpha-lipoic acid and 250 mg acetyl-l-carnitine) a day
    • Vegan EPA and DHA
    • Coconut oil for cooking and spreading - unlimited
    The following did not suit me:

    D-ribose
    Co-Enzyme Q10
    (possibly) N-acetylcysteine (NAC)

    I am a long-term vegan and don't try to reduce nuts or oxalates generally.

    I don't think high glutamate intake is (usually) the reason for high glutamate levels.
  19. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Why you prefer NAD over NADH?

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