Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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How to get magnesium shots?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Ocean, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I want to ask my doctor about this. Assuming he's never given these before or written a prescription for it to be done at home, what info do I need to bring him?

    I've read the magnesium can be mixed with different substances, etc. So is there any particular type or mixture I should ask for?

    Is there just one type of injection or a variety?

    I have trouble tolerating the pill form and don't seem to be able to get enough transdermally. Any info would be very helpful. Thank you!
     
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Ocean.

    Usually magnesium sulfate is the form used for magnesium injections. I've never had one, but I understand that they burn. Dr. Cheney has recommended adding taurine solution to the same syringe and injecting them together, and supposedly this prevents the burning sensation.

    The other thing I have encountered in connection with magnesium sulfate injections is that if there is a large population of sulfate-reducing bacteria in the gut, these injections can cause production of a lot of hydrogen sulfide, which can enter the blood and act as a toxin if present in high enough levels. If you know that you react badly to Epsom salt baths (Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate), which some PWMEs do, then I would not recommend getting magnesium sulfate injections.

    Have you tried oral magnesium glycinate? Supposedly it is the most absorbable oral form of magnesium.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I use a ridiculous amount of the magnesium chloride liquid in my bath and it has brought my magnesium levels up from 1.4 to now 2.0. I literally douse myself in it and then add more to the bath water itself. I was afraid I was overdoing it even but the labwork shows just an OK level so I guess I will keep at it!

    Maybe you could put it in a foot bath and soak in it that way too?
     
  4. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    I took these shots for years, they were very helpful. My doctor followed Dr.Cheney's recommedations at the time (9yrs ago). So you need 3cc syringes, 1 1/2" 25 gauge needles, magnesium sulphate 500G/M and we added Taurine 50MG/ml. I had my doctor instruct a friend to inject me because it was more practical and less stressful for me to go out to see him 3x/week.

    So, you draw up the .5cc Magnesium first and then 1.5cc Taurine so that the Taurine enters the muscle first, this will reduce the stinging effect of the Magnesium. Some people add a little local anestetic but I didn't need it because it did not hurt. You inject slowly into the upper outside quadrant of the buttock/hip area. You'll feel the effect immediately.
     
  5. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Rich,
    Thank you. I've just recently ordered that form and will be trying that next when it arrives. I'm hoping I can tolerate it and plan to build up slowly starting with a small dose. The injections sounds like a pain, so hopefully the pill will work for me.

    Ema,
    Thanks. I never even knew there was a liquid form. I don't like the epsom baths because the magnesium is so sticky and seems to leave a residue that is hard to get off, plus I've had trouble with baths in general but a foot bath might be good. Great idea. How long do you stay in the bath?

    Although in the long term I'd still really like something lower maintenance and less time consuming than even a foot bath. Right now I apply the spray many times throughout the day and it's very high maintenance. It's sticky, I have to wear certain clothes that leaves much of my skin uncovered, and constantly trying to wash the stuff off my hands, it's just a pain. I'd love to find something where I can either take a pill a few times a day or do shots and be done with it. Right now it feels like I spend the whole day applying magnesium. I guess the shots are probably not exactly low maintenance either though.

    I don't think I've ever had my magnesium levels tested. I think I'd read that it's not really reflective of the reality in terms of deficiency, but it sounds like your tests showed deficiency and then improvement, so maybe it can't hurt for me to try the test. Are there are vitamin/mineral tests that are worth getting? I've had vitamin D tested and I think B12.

    Mij,
    Thanks so much, I appreciate the detailed info, I'm going to copy that down exactly. It sounds a bit intimidating but I'm sure it's something one adjust to. I've never given myself a shot, although I gave one to a pet once.
     
  6. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Ocean.

    The only test I know of that does a good job of measuring the tissue cell intracellular magnesium is the Exatest. Red blood cell magnesium level does not reflect tissue cell level well, and serum magnesium is even less representative. There is the magnesium challenge test, also, but if the cell are not importing magnesium well, as in ME/CFS, this one won't be representative, either. The Exatest is offered by Intracellular Diagnostics, Inc., in Medford, Oregon: www.exatest.com

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  7. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Thanks Rich. So maybe it's not worth asking my doctor for the regular serum test.
     
  8. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I talked to my doctor and he said he's never given them before and wants me to try "slow mag" pills. I guess I'll try that as well as the mag glycenate. If those don't help or I can't tolerate them, how can I get shots done? Do only "alternative" doctors give them? I was hoping to try it once or twice at the doctor and if I respond well to try to get a prescription to do them myself or have my husband give them to me at home.
     
  9. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Is it because he's not sure whether he wants to prescribe them or that he just doesn't know how to give them? It's really not harmful unless you have kidney problems. My doctor is an MD so there are doc's who will but it depends on how open they are to trying things. Are there any functional and intergrative medicine doctors in your area?.
     
  10. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    He didn't seem interested in pursuing it. And yeah maybe there was an element of wondering if it might mess me up in some way or maybe that was the main concern, he didn't really say exactly. There are integrative docs where I am but they are all cash pay and so pricey, I really hope to find one who takes insurance who I can try the magnesium with. I could try to gather more info on it and ask again. I don't know if I could find some kind of fact sheet or something. But overall he didn't seem open to it so I don't know if he could be persuaded.

    I really think I'm not able to get enough orally and transdermally, especially while I'm taking vitamin D which seems to deplete me of its cofactors pretty quickly.

    Did you take any info to your doc when you first asked? Had your doctor done them before? Do naturopaths also do them? They may be cheaper than an integrative dr.
     
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    An injectable supplement for horse that bodybuilders use contains magnesium plus a few other interesting items, its called kynoselen. Im not saying to use this but it may be of interest plus looking into the other ingredients.

    Kynoselen is a cardiac & respiratory tonic & selenium supplement.

    Active constituents:

    • Disodic adenosine monophosphate: Improves cardiac and skeletal muscle output & increases blood supply to muscles.
    • Heptaminol hydrochloride: Increases cardiac output to meet increased demand during & following exercise & training.
    • Magnesium aspartate
    • Postassium aspartate: reported to be of value in delaying the onset of muscle fatigue.
    • Selenium (as sodium selenite): Highly available selenium. Prevents & treats selenium deficiency. Protects from muscle damage & "tying-up".
    • Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12): For carbohydrate, protein & amino acid metabolism (the process by which food is used to produce energy). Improves appetite with a "tonic" effect.

    Selenium:

    Selenium is an essential trace element. An important interrelationship exists between Vitamin E and selenium. Selenium is important for:

    • the immune system
    • cell membranes (protects cells from damage)
    • for the prevention of muscle degenerative conditions
    • for cardiac & skeletal muscles.

    Vitamin E and selenium are essential to protect the integrity of muscle cells. Selenium is required for the formation of glutathione peroxidase, a key ingredient in energy production. Both Vitamin E and selenium are important antioxidants, working to scavenge free radicals that damage muscle cells.

    Selenium Deficiency:

    Large areas of Australia are known to be selenium deficient. Hay & grain grown in soils in these areas will be selenium deficient. Both selenium & vitamin E appear essential for muscle function and the contribution of each is dependent on the other. It appears that it takes a considerable time (from 8 - 10 weeks) for dietary selenium supplementation to increase blood glutathione peroxidase (the enzyme that combines with Vitamin E to protect muscles & muscle activity). Injections of sodium selenite repeated weekly or fortnightly are recommended.

    Kynoselen: Prevention & Treatment:

    Regular treatment with Kynoselen is recommended:

    • to treat selenium deficiency
    • to increase the intensity of exercise & training
    • for accurate, reliable selenium supplementation
    • as a cardiac & muscle "tonic".

    Other effects of muscle fatigue which may not be easily recognised include damage to skeletal muscles, circulatory (heart) and respiratory (lung) systems.

    In the legs, the shift from muscle contraction to relaxation pulls and releases the tendons, controlling the movement of the bones. When muscles fatigue the horse begins to lose control over the stride, increasing the danger that a tendon will be extended at the wrong time. The injuries that result range from bowed tendons to bone fractures.
     
  12. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    My doctor was giving magnesium injections to his patients before I saw him but he was only giving them once a week at his clinic. I didn't feel it helped much. I told him this amount was not enough and that I wanted taurine added to the mix because Dr.Cheney was doing this for his patients. My doc attended one of Dr.Cheney's seminars a few years earlier so he was familiar with some of his treatments. This helped.
    He was not comfortable rx'ing the amount I wanted. it took a while(6 months) to convince him. He finally agreed to do a 3 week trial and when he saw how much better I was feeling it was easy to get more scripts.
     
  13. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Mij,
    Is there a published study or just someplace where Cheney has his protocol posted with info on his reasons for using it, results, etc? Anything I can bring in to my doctor my help convince him. I don't know if he can be convinced but if he will be I think bringing info will help. I found one study on mag. shots that I can bring in and also some info on how people with CFS and some other conditions tend to be low on magnesium, so I'm planning to bring those in.

    Heapsreal,
    Thanks for the info. For me, I've found I need to keep what I try to a very limited number, because I react to so many things that combined products don't work well for me because it's hard to know which of the products is causing effects. So I tend to try to use things that are just one product or at most one or two. It costs more trying supplements that way but it helps me.
     
  14. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    There use to be a company in europe who sold different injectable vitamins etc but for the life of me i cant find the dam site. If u search enough u can maybe find a site that sells magnesium injections??

    cheers!!!
     
  15. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Ocean, how knowledgeable is your doctor about CFS? I had a general RBC magnesium test done at the local lab and it showed very low levels, it was not the most accurate test to determine levels but if it's on the low end you are already 1/3 depleted. So bascially below normal. If you can just get mg injections alone without the taurine anything is better than none.

    Here is a good link:
    http://www.dfwcfids.org/medical/cheney/heart04.part2b.htm
    Magnesium Sulfate Injections
    Magnesium blocks the production of nitric oxide by calcium channel blockade. [Many patients benefit from magnesium injections, which are virtually painless with the addition of taurine. The Magnesium used by most is Magnesium Sulfate—standard 50% solution—1/2 cc drawn into the syringe first, followed by 1 1/2 cc's of Taurine. The Taurine is compounded at 50 mg/cc. The taurine makes the injection virtually painless and the ratio eliminates the hard knots many are familiar with. The injection is intramuscular, given in upper, outer quadrant of either buttock. Both require scripts from a doctor.]
     
  16. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    He's not knowledgeable about it as far as I know. I will take the info from that link. I hope he'll be willing to consider it at least. I got a slip for the test so if my levels show low (even if those tests aren't really too accurate) maybe it will work in my favor in convincing him. Thank you so much.
     
  17. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    richvank, maybe that worry is why my doctor did not want to try it. I didn't know there was any real risk to it. I react fine to magnesium including Epsom Salt, other than the fact that my skin gets irritated by the external form and my stomach by the oral form. That isn't a sign of the toxin you refer to, right?
     
  18. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    I get mag shots from my doc once a week. I believe he uses magnesium glycinate, as he said it's the one found to be best-absorbed, but he might have simply been talking about oral supplements when he mentioned the glycinate type. I do feel better on the days I receive those shots.
    FWIW the glycinate oral type is the only kind that has worked for me. I can't find anything higher than 400 mg per pill, though
     
  19. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I've tried glycenate and still get stomach problems even at 200 mg spread out throughout the day. I've tried to start slow and build up but so far not tolerating even that amount yet. I would love to try the shots.
     
  20. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    You could call a local compounding pharmacy (or do they prepare mag. at regular pharmacies?) and ask them if they know a local doctor who uses a lot of magnesium shots. I know my doctor uses them a lot in his practice because he gets excellent results with them. He is on my insurance plan but uses some alternative treatments.
     

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