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How to fix POTASSIUM deficency ??

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Banana94, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. Banana94

    Banana94

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    I started Freddds Protocol some weeks ago. My energy rapidly increased by taking Metafolin. After some days my energy decreased and I got the typical potassium deficency symptoms like a realy bad neck pain, neck tension and muscles spasm and muscle twichting all over the body. By taking a high amount of potassium gluconat my neck issues got much better but my muscle spasm are still the same. I take about 5g or more potassium in small doses over day whole day. How long does it take to fix it? I stopped taking Metafolin 2 days ago, because In dont want to worsen the potassium deficeny.
     
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  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Banana94 - are you sure you're taking 5 grams? At 99 mg a capsule, the standard dose, you would be taking 50 capsules a day.
     
  3. bombsh3ll

    bombsh3ll Senior Member

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    I take potassium citrate powder, half a teaspoon twice daily, to prevent hypokalaemia with taking licorice root and fludrocortisone for POTS. It is fairly cheap to buy online and doesn't taste bad when mixed with drinks. Have you had blood tests done to check low potassium is your issue?
     
  4. boolybooly

    boolybooly

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    My rules are -

    for muscle spasms take calcium (and vit D)

    for heart arrhythmia take magnesium as well as potassium if that does not help

    for maintenance take 2:1 ratios for doses of Ca:Mg and K:Na respectively

    so my guess would be calcium would help with the muscle cramps, if that is what you mean by spasms

    hope that helps
     
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  5. Banana94

    Banana94

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    First, thanks for your answers.

    @Mary yes it take about 10 times a day 5 tablets. 21st Century Potassium Gluconat.
    @bombsh3ll No i haven't done a blood test, because I can't test everything which I think is depleted. I just supplement it and see what happens.
    @boolybooly I think that not only potassium is depleted like Freddd describes in his protocol.
    I think the muscle spasm is caused by other deficiencies of electrolytes. Maybe Calcium.
    I will add some Calcium and Natrium. I already inject some magnesium s.c. because i can't tolerate it oral.
    No actually i mean with spasm muscle twitching, google translate translated it wrong. I don't have problems with cramps.
     
  6. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Banana94 - Okay, that's a fair amount of potassium.

    Another way to get more magnesium is to use either magnesium oil (which is not really an oil but a solution of magnesium cloride) available at health food stores, or you can make your own solution to apply on the skin using Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate). Hip has some very good information about transdermal magnesium on this thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...rbs-magnesium-trandermally.53024/#post-880674

    Transdermal magnesium would probably be easier and cheaper than injections.
     
    Richard7 likes this.
  7. Banana94

    Banana94

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    @Mary do you think its to much potassium? I don't plan to take this every day, just want to make sure I'm not gonna get a deficiency.
    Thanks for your input about transdermal magnesium. I already tried magnesium oil but after using it my skin gets very itchy and I have to take a shower. I will check Hip's information maybe it will help.
    I know the injection are expensive and painful but for me its the only way to make sure its in my body.
     
  8. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Banana94 - I can't really say if it is too much. The RDA is around 4500 mg but I think that's the minimum. But we do get potassium in food also.

    I'm like you in that I don't get tested for everything (I don't have a doctor who would do that anyways!) When my potassium tanked after I started methylfolate, I titrated up to 1000 mg a day, over a couple of days and that worked for me. So my guess is you're taking plenty of potassium and you may need more magnesium and/or calcium.

    You could try backing off on the potassium gluconate and try adding in low-sodium V8 which has 900 mg potassium chloride in 8 ounces and see how you do.

    The magnesium chloride in magnesium "oil" is drying and can irritate the skin. But magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt), as Hip recommends, is not drying or irritating so I think you would do much better with that. I would try taking a bath with Epsom salt and see if it helps, and then perhaps make my own much more concentrated solution to just spray on, described in the thread I linked above.

    You said you started metafolin some weeks ago and soon thereafter added potassium. I think if your problem was only low potassium, it would have resolved by now, though I can't say for certain of course. But my issue with low potassium resolved quickly within a couple of days. So I think it's likely you need more magnesium and/or calcium.
     
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  9. boolybooly

    boolybooly

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    Kirkman buffered magnesium bisglycinate works for me.

    Thing with minerals is you need them all and in the correct ratios, because Ca/Mg compete with each other as do K/Na because they have similar charge and ion sizes. If you take too much of one it makes the other relatively less abundant and both are lost in urine, so too much Ca makes you low on Mg ditto K/Na.

    So the best bet is to take them regularly in the 2:1 proportions in the first place and if you need extra its a fine adjustment of the ratio not a high dose of one over the other.

    I take 2x osteocare bone formula plus one Kirkman (100mg) Mg bisglycinate capsule because the osteocare is a little short on Mg and it works out about right.

    I use gluconate and Lo Salt for K and Lo salt has Na too in the right ratio. So I have a bit more Na in the form of iodised salt and also ascorbate.

    But I find K/Na is less critical than Ca/Mg which really lets me know when I get the balance wrong.
     
  10. Banana94

    Banana94

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    @Mary thanks i will try the epsom salt if my magnesium injections get out of stock.

    After titrating magnesium and Calcium in the correct ratio my Fasciculations/ muscle twitching is still here...
    And I added lots of salt in my food.
    I dont know what is still depleted???
    Symptoms:
    If potassium deficency then I get a bad neck tension
    If magnesium deficency then I get tension in my calf which make me difficult to walk longer than 10 minutes
    If Calcium deficency then I dont know my symptoms...

    Anybody can help me with my muscle twitching/ fascicultations??? Maybe @Freddd
     
  11. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Banana94 - sorry, I don't have any more suggestions. Another very knowledgeable person is @Hip, and he may have some ideas - I hope you get this sorted out!
     
  12. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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    @Banana94

    Some people doing Freddd's protocol reported doing better with vitamin B1. See, for example, this post.
     
  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Muscles spasm and muscle twitching may be unrelated to mineral deficiency.

    Quinine is a traditional medical treatment for muscle spasm; you could try drinking tonic water, which contains quinine.
     
  14. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Without tests that may be very difficult. I started testing serum electrolytes and hair-mineral analysis regularly since 9 years ago. And even with regular hinds from those tests I'm still not there yet.

    For example: showed below normal calcium in serum and hair the first 3 years. Only vitamin D3 (together with vitamin A and K2) brought that to normal (rather minimized supplemental calcium for avoiding soft-tissue classifications).

    Had very painful muscle cramps mainly in neck, but everywhere else too, only since starting to supplement vitamin D3, which can ramp-up the utilization of magnesium greatly. Over time found I need at least 2 g of elemental magnesium supplemented to avoid these painful muscle cramps. Mg-deficiency didn't even show up in serum or hair lab tests, but in whole blood only (a substitution for RBC-Mg, not available from the labs where I live).

    Sodium has been suboptimal in serum and very low in hair. The 3-4 gram of elemental sodium (note: elemental, as table salt that would be around 6 g/d!) I take at the moment hasn't resolved that yet (should get a new patch of tests soon..).

    Potassium has been the easiest to correct (beside calcium with vitamin D3, which probably caused the Mg problems and further down-stream effects on all other electrolytes in the first place), by supplementing about 2 g per day.

    Therefore, as my example shows, if one goes by what one is feeling from supplementing - in my case only felt the relieve from very high doses Mg - one can miss out on a lot happening at the same time.


    Therefore would suggest to get at least once serum electrolytes tested from your GP as a minimum - to know how far off you are - and not to aggravate any other electrolytes further. And get a copy of the test-results, since most 'normal' lab ranges are taken from 95% of all persons tested, and which are usually very far from 'healthy' ranges. Examples from serum with my labs:

    Sodium 136 - 145 mmol/mol (normal range); 142 -145 mmol/mol (~optimal range)
    Calcium 2.2 - 2.55 mmol/mol (normal range); ~2,4 mmol/mol (~optimal range)
    Potassium 3.5 - 5.1 mmol/mol (normal range); 4 - 5 mmol/mol (~optimal range)
    Magnesium 0.66 - 1.07 mmol/mol (normal range); > 0,86 mmol/mol (~optimal range)

    In the unlikely circumstance that your GP refuses these essential tests, where I live there are nearby labs where I can just walk in and each of them would cost my about €3,- only.
     
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  15. boolybooly

    boolybooly

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    Well I am really sorry to hear your twitching has not been helped. I dont know if my experience will help you but I offer it anyway in case it sparks a thought which might. Personally I treat fasciculation as a sign of fatigue and try to get more sleep and rest and choose good food. I get a lot of food reactions though so I keep a food diary and correlate symptoms with foods.

    When all else fails I take a good multivit and mineral which should have things like zinc, copper, molybdenum, selenium, manganese, chromium, boron etc in it. I usually take a little extra zinc anyway, but not too much as that can also be bad. Also kirkman B complex can be helpful, especially for processing hyper-activating foods.

    TBH I have tried quinine in tonic water and while it is possibly helpful for cramping in the short term I find it wears off and the calcium deficiency cramp / pain symptoms return more severely a day or two later causing even worse pain than I started with, which suggests it is masking the problem and not solving it. But I dont know how that would work with fasciculations. I avoid it now and stick to mineral supplements which I believe address the cause, which is a shame as I like the taste, but backlash from tonic has been my experience, though I know we are all different so what is right for me may not apply to others.

    One thing I have found useful for cramps in extremis is cramp bark tincture but I dont know if that will help with fasciculations and again there is the masking issue with this so its important to make sure you have no diet deficiencies but it has the additional effect of being a mild anxiolytic and antispasmodic.

    http://herbsformentalhealth.com/cramp-bark/
     
  16. Banana94

    Banana94

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    @Eastman thanks I already took high amounts of B1 which seems to doesnt have an effect....
    @Hip I bougt some bottles of dietary tonic water -> no effect but thank you for the input
    @pamojja Thanks but I ve read to many posts which said its difficult to measure the electrolytes in blood, other say to measure them in the RBC i think I have to test it out
    @boolybooly thanks for your input!
    My worst symptoms at the moment is ach muscles in the morning, niacin doesnt help. Thats why I think it cant be „overmethylation“
    Muscle weakness has also come up these days especialls after sleeping. I dont know anymore if Im low or to high in potassium? Take about 5g a day... I increased all my B vitamis (except MF and Niacin and B12) and this lets me feel worse... maybe something else got depleted
    Muscle twitching has gone worse my legs twitches all time when relaxed BUT it doesnt hurt so I can tolerate it. But would be fine to find out the cause...
     

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