The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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How to create more stomach acid?

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by ebethc, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    i did the baking soda test and came back w low stomach acid 3 days in a row...

    I've tried betaine and bitters to create more stomach acid, next I'm going to try ox bile... any suggestions?

    Also, maybe I need to raise the dose of the things I've tried... has anyone had luck w higher doses?

    Last, pancreatic - proteolytic enzymes have been super helpful, but as systemic enzymes, not as digestive enzymes

    Thanks
     
  2. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    What's the baking soda test ? (apart from the one to determine the sex of the baby, I can' t find it).
     
  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Dechi likes this.
  4. CCC

    CCC Senior Member

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    We used betaine HCL for a while (take it after a meal to give your own body a chance to produce its own first). Then after about 6 months on b12 (sublinguals then oils), the stomach acid started producing itself.

    Our naturopath recommended lemon juice just before a meal to get the digestive juices flowing - try to get the stuff on the back of the tongue, but we never really did that as we'd solved the problem by then.

    I like red wine with a meal - we all laughed here when we realised it was probably an unconscious effort to digest a heavy meal. It's a good excuse, anyway!
     
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  5. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @CCC

    I was taking betaine BEFORE meals. ... I'll experiment w higher doses and I'll also try it after a meal... I still have a big bottle

    I love lemon water! I notice it makes me feel a little better.. does it help stimulate gastric juices?

    Lol... I'll try the red wine...

    Why does your body stop making stomach acid? Is it the same as bile? I still have my gallbladder... so, does a gall bladder flush help??

    Thanks
     
  6. Eian Mcneely

    Eian Mcneely

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    Baking soda test is new info for me, I use lemon juice before meal its works best and is natural
     
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  7. echobravo

    echobravo Keep searching, the answer is out there

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    An ongoing H. Pylori infection might contribute to low stomach acid levels and weak digestion, so check if you have antibodies (preferrably by taking a stool test, but finding it in blood will also give you a good indication).

    http://scdlifestyle.com/2015/05/the-h-pylori-controversy

    To understand how the digestive system works and what can be done about "weak digestion" I recommend the "Eat Wheat" book by Dr. Douillard.

    Wish you luck!
     
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  8. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Make sure you are not diluting your stomach acid during meal times eg avoid drinking milk/ water or anything thing else which may dilute 30 mins before a meal and up till a while after. A lot of people drink things with their meals and that can cause issues.
     
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  9. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    I've read on the pernicious anaemia site that drinking tonic water with lime juice works...sounds civilised ! Haven't tried it though to say one way or another.
     
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  10. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Here are the things that have helped my husband and my in-laws (who all have TERRIBLE digestion problems):

    1) Do not drink with meals. This dilutes stomach acid. Try to drink when you are not eating. (Like @taniaaust1 mentioned)

    2) If you do drink with meals, add some lemon juice or apple cider vinegar (acetic acid). This makes the pH of water more acidic and prevents it from lowering your stomach's pH by too much.

    3) MOST IMPORTANTLY: take Betaine HCl with protein-based meals.

    When my husband first started taking HCl pills with his meals, he needed to take 8 to digest (with 9 he'd feel a slight burning, which is how he learned that he needed 8). Over the course of a few weeks, he needed progressively fewer until he got down to 1 per meal. Now, he still takes 1-3 depending on how much meat he's eating, but he doesn't need them all the time. Somehow by supplementing with HCl, his stomach was able to upregulate the acid it was producing.

    If you have H. Pylori, you will have chronic problems with too little acid, since H. Pylori prefers a more alkaline environment and is able to downregulate how much HCl you produce.


    You said that you tried Betaine (I'm assuming Betaine HCl). How much did you take and for how long?
     
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  11. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Basilico thanks for the feedback

    Yes, betaine hcl (Thorne)... I took 2 w dinner last night and was wide awake all night... does betaine give you more energy?

    I've really benefited from systemic proteolytic enzymes for inflammation and joint pain (wobenzym and vascuzyme), so I'm going to use both together... enzymes away from food and betaine w food

    When I took betaine a couple of years ago it did nothing ... timing is everything I guess... I think I've gotten rid of a gut infection, plus I've had a lot of rest..

    Any other digestive recommendations? I just finished a SIBO protocol which killed some bad stuff... lemon juice is great for me but I don't want to destroy the enamel on my teeth so it's not an everyday solution... plus I can get some straws :)
     
  12. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    @ebethc , if you did the SIBO protocol, I'm assuming you took Rifaximin, right? My husband took this a few years ago to treat a suspected SIBO problem, and it destroyed his GI system. We later learned his problems were likely due to the Rifaximin killing off all his good E. Coli. Doing a good supplementation with Mutaflor (which is E. Coli Nissile 1917) reversed this.

    If you are still having digestion issues, taking Mutaflor could be a really good next step. I don't know where you live, but if you live in Canada or the EU you can get it easily. From the US you'd have to order it from abroad (which is what we do). It's a bit pricey but is one of the few supplements that we've taken over the years that has had a really big impact in our health.

    If you are interested in another probiotic, then I'd also suggest trying Reuteri pearls. Reuteri is a really important probiotic that's pretty much found everywhere in and on the body - it's found in human breast milk, and is the first thing to colonize babies' GI systems, so it forms the foundation of our immune system. I took a box of Reuteri pearls a while ago when I didn't have Mutaflor on hand, and it really improved some GI disturbances I was having. These are cheap and available on Amazon.

    I don't think I or anyone in the family has noticed an increase in energy from taking HCl with meals...is it possible that effect was caused by something else?
     
  13. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Basilico
    I took an herbal protocol, and it went smoothly
     
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  14. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    What protocol did you use?
     
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  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Metagenics & Design for Health brands
    1 candibactan ar
    2 candibactan br
    3 allicillin (garlic derivative; SIBO w constipation)
    4 low carb diet

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24891990/
     
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  16. mhrps

    mhrps

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    Green tea works pretty well in that area.
     
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  17. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    Hi @ebethc betaine is trimethyl glycine a methyl doner, I am really not up on all the methylation stuff but that could be part of the wide awake thing.

    I find that it works really well for me. I had about 12 yrs of SIBO bubbling away every night like a fermentation vessel and having lots of pain from trapped gasses.

    I tried a lot of dietary modification and probiotics and so on, following advice from people such as Dr Myhill and Grace Liu's on SIBO but found that for me that betaine HCL was the last step in solving SIBO.

    At the time I was eating a low available carbohydrate high fibre diet with probiotics, ox bile and digestive enzymes. When I started on the betaine HCL I needed 7 x 650mg tablets per meal I am now (two years later) down to 3 - 4 tablets per meal.

    Acid does a lot, it enables you to better absorb nutrients and triggers the release of bile and digestive enzymes. For people who are treated soon it may well be enough to set them on a path to recovery. But when I got rid of the SIBO I still had issues with digestion.

    I was still producing food coloured stools whenever I stopped taking the ox bile, and that only changed when I was treated for B hominis in December last year (triple therapy), and the stools were mostly bristol 7 for all of that time are getting much closer to bristol 4 now that I am taking antifungals.

    I think most of my microbes must have been fungi. My slurries (thick bristol 7s) had been very well fermented and my very occasional stools had just floated as they are meant to. When I started taking nystatin I went to mostly bristol 2 - 4 and everything sank without any sign of fermentation.

    I expect that my stomach is still at a rather high pH between meals, which is an issue as it means that it does not provide an antimicrobial barrier between the outside world and me. I also suspect that my sinuses were perhaps providing a resevoir for the fungi and bacteria that were a problem. I had very much improved stools when taking dental probiotics and oral nilstat last year, and am currently on a complicated regimen of nasal rinses and swabs and antifungal and probiotics to try to deal with this source of chronic infection.

    One other issue re digestion that you may wish to look at is choline. To work properly the gut also has to move properly. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...se-acetylcholine-at-low-cost-naturally.46037/.

    I hope that some of this helps.
     
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  18. Alvin2

    Alvin2 If humans were rational...

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    i have some stomach/nausea issue, never diagnosed despite many tests, The HCL tablets work, keep taking more with a meal till your good, you can tell from feeling after each one if you need more,. If you took one too many drink some milk. HCL has no effect whatsoever on my ME/CFS in energy/wakefulness gained or lost.
    Enzymes help, a broad spectrum high potency can often take the place of a couple HCL tabs, take the enzymes while eating before HCL and wait a few mins before starting on the HCL.
    Apple cider vinegar help, a teaspoon or tablespoon can take the place of a HCL tab or two. I did it a while, more hassle then its worth.
    Many sources say taking HCL will eventually normalize endogenous production, didn't for me, but then again i never found out what it is i have, and no idea if ME/CFS related.
     
  19. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    Oh and re mutaflor, if that is hard to get you may want to look at symbioflor 2 (a multistrain probiotic ecoli). I found grow it in much the same way as Myhill grows mutaflor (on soy in a yoghurt maker).

    &@Alvin2 I do not know that we know this but RichvanK considered the low acid in ME/CFS to be a straighforward result of having low energy: the biochemical pathways we use for producing acid use a lot of energy, but we don't have the energy so we don't have the stomach acid.
     
  20. Alvin2

    Alvin2 If humans were rational...

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    i have no idea who that is but do we have scientific evidence to support this?
     

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