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How to address OXYGEN TOXICITY WITHOUT Cheney's CSF?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by keenly, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    The crux of this lecture was about Cheneys ideas on Oxygen Toxicity and then on his current treatment plan. The talk presented a great deal of technical research information, with displays of IVRT and ECHO graphs and studies, which Cheney has applied to his patients.

    Dr. Cheney initiated the talk by stating his concept of CFS as a compensatory mechanism to contain the redox problem (at the heart of it), and that fatigue is a mechanism for keeping worse things from happening. This theme reappears throughout the talk.

    The talk was filled with familiar information about diastolic dysfunction. He feels that almost all CFS patients have diastolic dysfunction. 100 % of CFS patents have an energy related cardiac problem. One of the primary symptoms of diastolic dysfunction is Orthostatic Intolerance (a problem with standing). He feels that CFS is a severe oxidative stress disorder, resulting from some provocation, or insult viral or bacterial. He thinks that antiviral therapy is only effective in the beginning of the disease. He spent some time talking about the four phases of the disease.

    CFS patients cannot get oxygen into their tissues. If you administer oxygen to the patient, they get worse. Cheney believes that oxygen is kept out as a compensation for keeping something worse from happening and the system accepts the consequences as compensation for not getting something worse. With his testing method, Cheney detects a 21% loss in energy in 30 seconds when oxygen is administered to patients. He says that the CFS condition is close to a fetal physiology in two ways - 40% have PFO (an opening in the heart), and all have oxygen toxicity.

    Treatment of oxygen toxicity is in control of the outcome of this disease. Treat the oxygen toxicity correctly and the oxygen toxicity goes away and the patient gets better.

    CFS patients have a defect in oxygen handling systems. This includes damage to red blood cells. The body compensates by keeping oxygen out and the result is low energy. Cheney discussed the four adaptations to low oxygen - and most CFS patients have all four. One of them is the methylation block another important defense mechanism against oxygen toxicity. The push crash phenomenon is basically is a failure of the HPA axis to control oxygen toxicity.

    NAPDH is low, anabolically blocked which results in P450 becoming uncoupled, leading to all sorts of problems.

    Treatment

    Dr. Cheney feels that the best treatment follows the best understanding of leverage. He calls this the control point, and he believes in CFS this control point is oxygen toxicity. He describes himself as having gone beyond just treating the symptoms, or searching for the etiology or for specific viral culprits. He is interested in finding and attacking the control point, and getting patients back to a more functional state. Everything that he knows points to CFS as an oxygen toxic state. He asks himself: what is it that makes the oxygen toxicity go away?


    SO; what can we do?

    don't pulsed magnetic fields help with this?

    any thoughts; i can;t afford to see Cheney.
    Paul
  2. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    I've recently been talking to a young woman who did go to see Cheney. He also has a research site and a public site (www.cheney.com) where you can garner some ideas. But since these are more public forums, he's more generalized and less opinionated than the stuff I've been getting from the woman who went to see him. I'm thinking I'd like to write some articles on what she said; unfortunately I am moving house and so I get crashy very often and haven't done it.

    Two things: antioxidants are poison to us, mostly. Feel good for a bit, taper off, then drag us down. Including fish oil! I went off the many antioxidants I've been on and do feel things lightening a bit. I've noticed the pattern he says with antioxidants, but just thought I wasn't responding or I didn't have the right combination; kept trying more antioxidants and same pattern.

    Another thing: Iceland Springs water (also called Iceland Pure, at Walmart I think): 1 liter first thing in the morning, one liter at midday, one liter later in the day (adjust for when your "day" starts). It's something about the alkalinity, but there also seems to be some other element at play here. I know this sounds nutty, but I bought a couple of cases and by god, I do believe I feel the difference.

    In general, whatever you can do to make your body more alkaline suppresses the retrovirus.

    Hope to be writing more soon. Off to stare into space and be silent...
  3. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    Just thinking out loud here, (and that might not be a good thing because I'm not sure my thinking is straight :) ), but is it possible that the bad reaction from fish oil, Vit. D3, CoQ10, etc. that Cheney talks about, is actually die-off, and could help in the long run? Or maybe we're too weakened to manage a die-off. But these things could be killing pathogens, yeast, etc. and that could be causing symptoms to worsen and show poorly on his Echo Terrain Map, (or whatever it's called).

    I ask this because EVERYONE else in the world seems to think that fish oil and D3 are really good things.
  4. kday

    kday Senior Member

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    I honestly think that when it comes to testing supplements, his echo terrain maps are flawed. My opinion and my experience.

    I believe you have to take a supplement long term to measure whether it's beneficial or not.
  5. satori

    satori

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    NJ
    Hypercoagulation would cause this wouldn't it? I know you can treat that with a Beck blood purifier (many say it is caused by Babesia). Clearly Cheney has a point. Producing energy anerobically would is inefficient and would result in lower energy. Lower energy would manifest itself in a variety of ways.

    I am not totally sure I understand why the body is not utilizing oxygen properly. I understand the part about the red blood cells, but not sure I get the rest. I can understand why the artesunate works given that it is anti malarial, anti babs, and anti viral, but I'm not sure I understand the rest of the program. I've read that his CSFs are much better than regular glandulars, but I wonder if the regular glandulars would at least have some positive effect.
  6. MDL

    MDL

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    Oxygen is not toxic, our ability to utilize it is impaired!

    I believe we were meant to breathe oxygen and walk in the sunshine, not live in the dark and chemosynthesize H2S at the bottom of the sea.

    As I pointed out in Hypothesis: Chronic fatigue syndrome is caused by dysregulation of hydrogen sulfide metabolism when homeostasis shifts toward an imbalance--and I believe that balance shifts toward the oxygen-hating pathogenic anaerobic bacteria, the mitochondria, organelles required by every cell to sustain life, are unable to adequately utilize oxygen. This results in hypoxia, a rather common finding in CFS.
  7. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    Man, this is so "right" feeling to me. I've been telling every doc I've seen that I'm sure I'm not getting enough O2 to my brain and that it's like I'm in a state of constant hypoxia, (I was an avid fan of mountain climbing books).

    Also, an ND did a live blood sample analysis and my red blood cells were all clumped together. He did the routine for about 5 months straight and the result was the same. He didn't have an answer though.
  8. MDL

    MDL

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    You may want to look more closely at what happens to the blood during altitude sickness and polycythemia.
  9. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    Is it similar to what I'm experiencing. If so, how do I get rid of it?
  10. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    so dealing with this in the gut will help us to tolerate oxygen?
  11. MDL

    MDL

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    Hello keenly,
    As I have said before, treating the multiple co-infections that occur in PWC is imperative. Mold, yeast, bacterial infections and many food sensitivities
    are H2S-related. H2S plays a huge role in the body, not unlike oxygen in its importance. It appears to me that many of the well-known doctors are taking this approach, whether they say it is H2S related or not.

    You may want to read the piece Cort wrote last year:http://aboutmecfs.org/Rsrch/H2S/H2S.aspx
    http://aboutmecfs.org/Rsrch/H2S/H2S.aspx

    Good luck to you-
    MDL

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