Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by dbkita, May 10, 2013.
The title says it all. I am curious what people are taking in terms of molybdenum per day.
150mcg x 3.
150 mcg x 2. It took about a year and a half to get my Mo level up to normal at that rate. Once it was normal, I went to 150 mcg once a day because I did not want it to keep going up. In six months my Mo had dropped to barely detectable again.
@litlebluestem: how r u measuring it? Blood? Urine?
I took 500 mcg for about 6 months and then dropped it because I wasn't sure if it was doing anything.
There is about 160 mcg in the mineral supplement that I take currently.
Little Bluestem, I'm curious how you were measuring this as well?
I was taking 3000mcg for a few months, took a few months to get there from <10mcg/meal. I started to reduce it recently because I think I am starting to show copper deficiency symptoms. Molybdenum and manganese frequently caused me to feel iron anemia symptoms (depressed immune system, spaciness) from the very beginning even at the tiny dose I started at. I could not tolerate molybdenum without a big dose of manganese but I have been able to reduce manganese as well, a few weeks ago. I found that manganese is a stronger iron antagonist than molybdenum and that was getting worse as well, until I reduced the dose.
@ fozzaw: wondering if the moly was chelating copper & the manganese was improving your oxidative stress by assisting SOD metabolism in the mitos?
I'm taking 2 x 250 mcg. I have no idea if it's helping or not. I will say the same thing about most of my supplements.
I am measuring it by tissue (hair) mineral testing.
At the same time I reduced my molybdenum because the level was normal, I began taking manganese and worked up to 16 mg/day as part of Christine's B2 protocol. This did not bring my Mn up from the bottom of the normal range. I wonder if it increased my need for molybdenum.
I have been on 3 x 150 mcg for six months and my molybdenum RBC values are still way below normal. Hair analysis done a few months ago also showed very low. Mo clearly reduces reflux and certain pain patterns that would be commensurate with sulfite issues.
At the same time I just found out that my manganese levels are tragically low for RBC. Not sure how reliable molybdenum RBC values are but manganese RBC is the definitive measure for that mineral since Mn is the highest in blood cells. May explain why my carbohydrate tolerance is so bad.
To further complicate things my plasma ammonia levels fasting in the morning are always ~50 which is fine. But late afternoon levels are always ~80-86 or so. But this last time when measured the afternoon jump happened with only a small amount of food eaten since waking up. So now it looks more and more like the methylation supplements are driving the CBS flux. I wonder then if Mo and Mn are being depleted by the trans-sulfuration metabolites. Hmmm.
Wow I cannot imagine 3000 mcg a day. That is way above the NOAEL in humans. Yikes!
Have no idea... But there is some interesting news on manganese recently...
Lyme bacteria uses manganese for enzymes.
Besides what I'm getting in my multi (about 25 or so mcg), I was taking an additional 75mcg while on the CBS protocol. Now that I'm done with CBS, that's dropped to 25mcg. All of those amounts are muscle tested, so that's what my body's telling me it needs.
So do we not take manganese if we have Lyme? Some people say not to take magnesium because it could feed the biofilm. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it does raise some questions. Rich said that the Lyme bacteria also feed on cysteine which would then lower a person's glutathione.
I don't worry about feeding biofilms. I'm more concerned about becoming deficient in minerals due to poor absorbtion and gut dyfunction. Maybe the cells are incapable of distributing minerals efficiently through the system due to poor methylation?
I tried to treat biofilms one time with a EDTA chelator that pulled calcium from my GI system(I'm guessing). Either that, or the chelator didn't hold the metals well.
It caused me to crash from almost a complete remission. It took about two or three years to figure out I had to supplement with special liquid calcium. Double edged sword, because calicium inrritates the stomach, but I know I'm deficient because of bloodwork last year.
I avoid caffine to reduce biofilms. I think the caffine causes plaque on my teeth(biofilm), and maybe this is a response to excitotoxity. Maybe this is to protect from oxidation and these crazy free radicals?
Whatever the case, I doubt I can methylate while drinking caffine. I takes months to notice the benefit of caffine removal though.
I supplement manganese because when I take it, I notice an hour or two later that my GI tract responds in what I consider a favorable way. Taking it for now, at some point I need to figure out how to retest these levels including lithium.
I do take a little molybdenum also.
EDIT: I'm not sure about the caffine causing biofilms, just know caffine prevents improvement and causes head discomfort.
I agree. I don't know if this biofilm thing will pan out or not, but I also am more concerned about being mineral deficient. I decided to start taking lactoferrin again to bind to the iron which feeds other pathogens (if not Lyme). Lactoferrin is supposed to inhibit the biofilm, but I'm not sure I'd buy a supplement strictly for biofilm at this point. If a supplement has other benefits besides breaking up the biofilm such as Candex which also helps with candida or serrapeptase for inflammation then maybe I'd consider it.
Lactoferrin is also good because it simply sequesters the iron for your OWN use as opposed to other gut pathogens. It won't do anything for securing iron reserves in the blood or liver, ONLY in the gut.
thanks about the manganese, i was wondering about that too. how much do you take?
If you take lactoferrin for your gut, won't you still need to take some other form of iron for the blood and liver? Then won't the gut pathogens use the iron you take for the blood and liver?
To be clear when I ssid lactoferrin does not secure iiron in the livet or blood it eas so people did mot misconstrue that it keeps iron away from systemic pathogens like Lyme's outside of the gut. It does wonders for sequestering iron from bugs in the gut. As Adreno linjed the net effect is now the iron in your food will actually go to you and not your dysbiotic organsims hence why you don't need to have ferrous sulfate. You could do both and raise it faster in theory but you could also eat more meat withr the lactoferrin. Lactoferrin work worked for me but then I learned I have antibodies to all the milk proteins.
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