The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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How much CoQ10 do you take?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by SOC, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I think what adreno is saying that they are one and the same to the body. There is no need to take both. Either/or is fine.
     
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  2. SOC

    SOC

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    Just to update:
    Dr Klimas said ubiquinone converts to ubiquinol assuming that biochemical pathway is working. We know, however, that a lot of our biochemistry is not working normally, so that pathway might not be working effectively. She suggested splitting your CoQ10 dose between ubiquinol and ubiquinone just in case. So if you are taking 600 mg ubiquinone, you should try 300 mg ubiquinone and 100 mg of ubiquinol (because ubiquinol is 3x more bioavailable...?)
     
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  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    What is the half life of q10?
    Is there a need to dose more than once a day?
     
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  4. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    Around 30 hours, so no.
     
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  5. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    I have since changed my mind about this. I posted a study somewhere on the board that directly compared the two. Both forms raised ubiquinone, but only ubiquinol raised ubiquinol significantly. So yes, there may be some problems with conversion.
     
    SOC likes this.
  6. SOC

    SOC

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    IIRC, the peak is 5-6 hours after taking it and the half-life is 36 hours. So first-morning and lunchtime dosing might be worthwhile if you want to have good levels in the afternoon. Some people can't take it later than first-morning, though, because it keeps them awake. I don't have that problem. :D I can take a huge dose and still nap at peak level time, if I need to.
     
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  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I guess with half life of 30hrs and with continual use blood levels will also increase.
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    What do others think of acetyl carnitine as a synergistic effect with q10 for energy?

    Again i have found it initially helpful, over time the effects dont seem as noticeable.

    I use 1000mg a day of acetyl carnitine .
     
  9. SOC

    SOC

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    Dr K said that most of us are very depleted in CoQ10, so we need to get CoQ10 levels up first, then supplement with "mito food" like acetyl carnitine. She also mentioned that normal CoQ10 doses may not be enough to get our CoQ10 levels in the right range which is why they don't seem to work for some of us. We need to take high levels for a while to make up for the depletion and then we might be able to go down to more normal levels for maintenance.

    She also said to make sure whatever "mito food" product you're using has PQQ which encourages the growth of more mitochondria.

    I've spent a year at higher doses of ubiquinone (800 - 1800 mg), so I figure I'm ready to feed those little mighty chondria ;). I've ordered acetyl carnitine and PQQ. We'll see if I can tell any benefit from them now. I have not in the past.

    Disclamer: This is all my memory and understanding of what Dr K told me. I could be misunderstanding or misrepresenting her out of ignorance or brain fog. Buyer beware. ;)
     
  10. SOC

    SOC

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    We might need to keep in mind that research into the half-life of CoQ10 in the blood was probably done on healthy people. Who knows if our bodies use it faster, slower, or the same as those of healthy people?
     
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  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Are there many using pqq that can give some feed back?

    It looks like an interesting supplement .
     
  12. SOC

    SOC

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    There are several interesting threads on PQQ at PR. You have to do a Google Site Search to find them, though, as the regular search doesn't work on a short word like PQQ
     
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  13. pogoman

    pogoman Senior Member

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    are you taking riboflavin also?
    I found it and coq10 worked together better than coq10 alone.

    I tried a bottles worth earlier this year, no noticeable improvement
     
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  14. Rich D

    Rich D

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    Ubiquinol is purported to be up to 6X more bio-available than ubiquinone, which ultimately gets converted into ubiquinol in your system anyway, but possibly not so effectively. So, you would need much less ubiquinol than ubiquinone to achieve the same level of CoQ10 in your system. The Life Extension Foundation has a lot of research on this topic.

    I took up to 1200 of ubiquinone at one point, and it made no difference. I've also taken up to 600 of ubiquinol with no effect either. I now take 100 of ubiquinol every day, though I'm not sure it's doing anything.

    I get my products from Swanson, they seem to have the best price.
     
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  15. klynn

    klynn

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    I'm new to commenting here, but when you say Dr. K, is there a resource or reference website you recommend that I can dig into for more info on the things you speak of in regard to mitochondria? I'm needing to explore my experience with acetyl l carnitine. I'm loving what it does for me, but having some side issues that make me wonder if I can find a substitute or if I'm missing an angle to dig into.
     
  16. SOC

    SOC

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    Sorry, wish I could help, but I have no written reference to give you. I'm going by what my ME/CFS specialist told me at my latest appointment. I suppose you might have some luck looking up websites for genetic mitochondrial disorders. They might have the kind of info you are looking for.

    Hopefully someone else here at PR can come up with some references for you.
     
  17. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    You might find relevant information, including supplement recommendations, in this paper by MitoAction.

    A Modern Approach to the Treatment of Mitochondrial Disease
     
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  18. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    I posted about my + my non-"CFS" friend's positive experiences with PQQ about a year ago. But my other "CFS" friend felt no benefit (even with 3 times what we take). I think it depends on if you have a mito problem or not.

    I have never tried over 400 mg CoQ10 but this thread has me interested to try.
     
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  19. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    let's see if I can post the direct link that Adreno posted a while back

    The bioavailability of the reduced form of coenzyme Q10 (ubiquinol) was compared to oxidized coenzyme Q10 (ubiquinone) with identical soft gel capsule excipients by measuring steady state plasma coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) levels in 12 healthy volunteers. After baseline levels of ubiquinol, ubiquinone, total CoQ10, α-tocopherol, and total cholesterol were obtained, follow-up lab work was performed after 4 weeks of 200 mg/day of ubiquinone, after 4 weeks washout, and after 4 weeks of 200 mg/day of ubiquinol. Plasma total CoQ10 increased from 0.9 to 2.5 µg/mL (P < 0.001) after 4 weeks of ubiquinone and increased from 0.9 to 4.3 µg/mL (P  < 0.001) after 4 weeks of ubiquinol. Total CoQ10/cholesterol ratio increased from 0.2 to 0.7 µmol/mmol after 4 weeks of ubiquinone and increased from 0.2 to 1.2 µmol/mmol after 4 weeks of ubiquinol. Both the increase in plasma CoQ10 and the increase in CoQ10/cholesterol ratio were significantly better after ubiquinol (P < 0.005 and P  < 0.001, respectively) than after ubiquinone indicating superior bioavailability. Plasma ubiquinol/total CoQ10 ratio increased from baseline during ubiquinol supplementation (P < 0.005) and remained unchanged after ubiquinone supplementation. No side effects were noted in this study.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpdd.73/full
     
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  20. leokitten

    leokitten Senior Member

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    I've been taking 300mg ubiquinol per day as part of a slew of supplements and haven't noticed any effect.

    Maybe I should increase the dose.
     

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