Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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How many Gulf War/Middle East members on PR?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Diwi9, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    I have been considering my onset and history. I grew up in the Middle East and was there (KSA) during Gulf War I. I am astounded by the similarities between Gulf War Illness and ME/CFS, especially considering the atypical and classic subsets in the latest Hornig/Lipkin study (I believe they had one Gulf War Veteran who placed in the atypical group). Papers state that 25-32% of Gulf War I veterans have been diagnosed with Gulf War Illness, which is essentially ME/CFS (although more prevalence of MCS and neurological symptoms in this cohort, which is in line with "atypical ME/CFS"). Statistics show that 17.6% of Gulf War II (i.e. Iraq War) veterans have been diagnosed with Gulf War Illness. Furthermore, Gulf War Illness has been declared a real disease...not psychosomatic. When we want to discuss etiology, do these figures not astound others?

    Are there others on this forum with links to the Gulf War/Middle East? I don't think this aspect has been vetted and discussed considering the subtypes in the Hornig/Lipkin paper.

    My onset has been gradual. During Gulf War I, I was about 200 miles from the Kuwait border. We did experience scud missile attacks to my camp and oil well fire smoke for weeks. I had multiple contacts with bases, soldiers, and their equipment...including taking materials home with me. I was a teenager and had my bedroom decked with "tokens." This inquest could be spurious, but given the statistics, I cannot negate an environmental/toxic insult that set me up for ME/CFS...and maybe others have some history too?
     
  2. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I wonder how many cases have to do with vaccines such as anthrax vaccine, or depleted uranium dust?
     
  3. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    There are studies, but etiology seems inconclusive. However, the incidence is so great that one cannot deny some environmental insult that interrupted immune function.
     
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  4. 5150

    5150 Senior Member

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  5. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    @5150 - I was not in the military, just an American kid growing up overseas and our family did all we could to support American troops serving in the desert. My Dad is also a Vietnam vet, two tours.

    Contagion is an interesting concept, but I don't know anyone else I grew up with that has my condition. My Dad definitely has MCS and I have a sister who suffered thyroid problems at a young age. I just cannot fathom that 200,000 of 700,000 Gulf War I soldiers have been diagnosed with GWS/I and it looks like ME/CFS. Why is this not a huge issue on the forum? Why are we not a combined force, because the government has given our condition different names?
     
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  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    If you look at the Wikipedia article on Gulf War Illness, it covers the various suspected causal factors. The two factors that appear to be the most likely causes are:

    • Organophosphate pesticides used as insect repellents during the wars, to keep rates of pest-borne diseases low.

    • Chronic exposure to sarin gas (also an organophosphate compound) and mustard gas at low, nonlethal levels, from sources such as from Iraqi chemical attacks, or from allied bombings of Iraqi chemical warfare munitions facilities. A large number of troops were exposed to the chemical warfare agents released during the postwar demolition of one particular Iraqi chemical warfare depot ("Bunker 73") in Khamisiyah, Iraq.


    Studies in Scotland showed that farmers exposed to "sheep dip" organophosphate pesticides suffered a lot of sickness, and have 4 times the risk of developing ME/CFS. Refs: 1 2 3


    Some forum threads about the ill effects of organophosphates:
     
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  7. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    There are also theories re: Gulf War Syndrome that it was, at least in part, due to the vets being given Cipro and Larium (two very dangerous Fluoroquinolones). There was a member of PR (I am blanking on his name or I would tag him for you @Diwi9) who got Gulf War Syndrome from a vaccine but he was never in the military. I wish I could think of his name!
     
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  8. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    I think there is a big indicator of etiology. The introduction of organophospates into modern civilization and individual vulnerabilities, especially at specific developmental points may make us vulnerable to development of ME/CFS. One would suspect that the level and duration of exposure during the Gulf Wars, may create the maelstrom of cases.

    GWS/I needs to be fundamentally linked to ME/CFS, as Hornig and Lipkin indicate in their study: distinct subsets lead to the same (similar) result.
     
  9. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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  10. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    Also from Wikipedia
     
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  11. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @Diwi9, I actually had around 9 months chronic exposure to organophosphates, as unbeknown to me, a large amount of organophosphate was spilt in my home. It really screwed up my brain, and I suffered from some mild psychosis as a result. Then shortly after this exposure, I caught a virus, and this led to my ME/CFS. I think both virus and organophosphate probably played a role in the development of my ME/CFS.
     
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  12. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    Still reading it, but makes me happy to see a realistic review of immune and endocrine disruption being studied...and in a male cohort.

    On the Nova Southeastern University's website, they are recruiting for ME/CFS (male and female participants) and female GWS/I sufferers for a VA study:
     
  13. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    This seems like a likely combination, especially given the proximity of vaccinations given to soldiers in time with organophospate exposure.
     
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  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Looks like they created a computer model of the interactions of the immune system, HPA-axis and HPG-axis, and then tried out some interventions on that model. I have not come across such research before, and don't know how valid it is; but seems to me like a bit of a long shot that this model and the treatments that worked might correspond to actual GWI.
     
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  15. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  16. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    In the USA, our Environmental Protection Agency issued a report based on over a decade of research into chlorpyrifos, another flavor of organophosphate. They wanted to either ban or curtail use of what is now the "coco-cola of pesticides" (because it is so popular). Unfortunately, the report required a 60-day comment period and three days before the close of the comment period Trump was inaugurated. Now the EPA is no longer interested in restricting the use of chlorpyrifos.

    Although chlorpyrifos are organophosphates, I really don't know how much we can generalize.

    One interesting thing I read in the articles is babies eating (I assume) non-organic baby food were being exposed to up to 140 times the "exposure limit." I've heard people saying for years that there is no need to eat organic because the pesticides are washed off before we eat them. This would seem to argue strongly against that.

    https://theintercept.com/2017/04/05...a-to-force-ban-of-pesticide-linked-to-autism/

    https://theintercept.com/2017/01/14...-using-a-pesticide-linked-to-autism-and-adhd/
     
  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Organophosphates are part of a huge cover up, or perhaps "aiir brushing" is more appropriate for some of it

    #1
    Documentary on UKs channel 4, iirc, was about British chemical workers making nerve gas for our military in 1950 1960s, many of whom suffered dreadful health problems from even the tiniest leaks of those vile chemicals
    As usual UK government covered it up by using the Official Secrets Act to terrorize the men into silence

    #2
    I bloody knew something dirty was going on in the 1980s because a Tory politician who was strongly involved with forcing farmers to use sheep dip by law, ended up working for the company who made the chemicals

    #3
    Britain and America DID sell/give info and equipment to Saddam for making nerve gas, to use against Iranians
    Note our scumbag politicians weren't complaining much when it was being used on the Iranian army, the carnage gasses, minefields, airbursts, old fashioned water cooled machine guns and then giant flame throwers did on one of the loony Iranian mass wave charges was unfrikkin believable :(

    I've read several pieces suggesting that some of the SCUDs launched against Coalition/Saudi were actually loaded with nerve gas, this was possibly covered up to keep the lid on the whole disgusting WMD trade and more importantly, President Bush had, understandably, threatened to retaliate against any WMD attacks with thermonuclear strike on Baghdad
    Truth that Gulf War was also a lie, again about oil, control etc, so the "powers behind the throne" didn't want nuclear weapons fired
    So, big cover up

    Also as poster above notes blowing up some munition bunkers released war gasses and possibly bio-chem materials as well. Aflatoxins, brucelosis etc
    British army units were ordered to turn off their gas alarm system as they kept going off....so like "just ignore it, it's ok!"...standard operating procedure, giving the troops the Mushroom Treatment, not carijg a damn about them from on high

    Note that aflatoxins can badly compromise the immune system and are not just found in NBC weapon labs, pretty common actually as they come from moulds and some can like nerve gas penetrate the skin
    While organophosphates are extremely potent adjuvants (make immune system hyper reactive)
     
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  18. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    Has anyone read brucellosis triangle,I was thinking of buying it,if I can find it.
    Meant to be sequel to unfortunate skull valley incident,looks interesting.
     
  19. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    Came across this article showing an association between toxic (pesticide) exposure and "Chronic Multisymptom Illness," but no association for oil smoke exposure.
    http://journals.lww.com/joem/Abstract/2017/01000/The_Association_Between_Toxic_Exposures_and.9.aspx

    What is the need for the name change? It can't be called Gulf War Illness, because its also seen in veterans from Afghanistan. Amazing how much this condition can be obfuscated by calling it a million different names.

    Also, this paper distinguishing ME/CFS and GWS based on cytokine signatures, DeMeirleir is an author...sort of a precursor to Hornig/Lipkin's latest.
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1043466614006024
     
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  20. 5150

    5150 Senior Member

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    @Diwi9 i am so far affected by this illness, I don't have a clue about organizing that effort. But I think you are right. We should team up --- it's the same or darn close related. The HIV'ers aren't lifting one finger to help us. so eff them.
     
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