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how long did it take for your methylation protocol to kick in?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by ebethc, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Once you found the correct combo of methylation supps (folate, b12, etc), how long did it take for you to feel better? Not 100% well, but to get some noticeable relief, maybe so you could say, Yes, this is the right track to recovery. :) I tried this last Spring, and the naturopath said that people know immediately if it works. Well, I didn't have an immediate reaction. Since then, I've read that it takes 6 - 8 weeks to kick in, so I'm giving the metafolin/b12/p5p another try. Not sure if that's until you feel anything OR recovery. I feel like the metafolin helps, but honestly, it's hard to tell during allergy season. I also read that metafolin has a 3 hour half life, so I"m dividing the doses this time.

    thanks
     
  2. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    I know that I 'started low, and went slow' and never felt anything for over a year. I went to a doctor who claimed to specialize in methylation and within 2-3 weeks I noticed immense improvement. BUT, he wasn't a start low, and go slow kind of practicioner and I still don't think I have my supplements balanced and 'right'... I still have periods of crashing that lacking another 'known' cause I have been attributing to pushing the envelope to far with my supplements. I've been taking breaks from it and that seems to have cut back on the frequency of crashes and I'm hoping will buy me the time to get to a point where I can find the right balances and maybe then I won't have to keep taking a holiday from my supplements.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    thanks - that's helpful... The start low & go slow didn't seem right for me personally. I can understand why it's recommended, but I feel like I need more of a "jumper cable" effect :) Taking too much may cause a crash, but you have to feel better to even have a crash, right? So, I'll start considering that once I even feel better..Maybe I'll do 1 or 2 weeks on, then take a break, etc.

    Can you tell me what amounts of MB12/Mfolate you were prescribed by the doctor? Since most of the guidelines out there are for the start-low-go-slow method, I don't have a good sense of an alternative approach... I'm taking
    3 800mcg metafolin 2x per day (next time I order, I'm going to get 1000mcg)
    1 5000mcg MB12 2x per day
    1 35mcg P5P 2x per day

    I also take NAC, ALA, C, D, tiny amount of Licorice extract for adrenals in the a.m., and glycine at night.

    Can you share the name / location of your doctor? I don't have the money know, but it would be good to have a recommendation for when I need it. thanks!
     
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @ebethc I think low and slow also didn't work for me. I'd have to go through my notes, but as I recall, it was only when I really started increasing that I started feeling better. And adding LCF. My initial low and slow start-up was uninformed, I didn't really get the right order or balance needed between B12/folate. I got scalp outbreaks from too much of each of those, without enough of the other to balance. Only when I finally asked Fred and he suggested increasing folate 100-200mcg every day or 2 did things work for me.
     
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  5. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    What is LCF?

    100-200 mcg still seems pretty low.. Did you feel at least a little something right away? It would be nice to have some kind cooperation from my body to know if I'm on the right track :)

    thanks
     
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    The 100-200mcg are increases to whatever you've started at. I stayed on a single 800mcg tab of folate for a very long time.

    LCF: L-Carnitine Fumarate

    Asto what I felt, I'm afraid I can't recreate that now. Mostly what I was watching for were side effects, particularly from folate deficiency: skin outbreaks, or potassium deficiency: heart irregularities, breathlessness. I can't now remember when it was I became aware of no longer having neurological symptoms, including the lifelong insomnia, muscle fasiculations, balance issues, extreme sensitivities to light and sound. I attribute the neurological healing to B12.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
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  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    My eyes, sinuses, throat and lungs get extremely irritated, and I have extreme stiffness of joints/joint pain, brain fog, fatigue, all over aches / pains... Those symptoms could be a lot of things, but I'm hoping that targeting nerves via Mfolate/MB12/P5P will calm my system down. Also ongoing dietary experiments...

    the brain fog is the worst (and most stubborn) because it inhibits my ability to work or work well... DMG/TMG/Sunflower Lecithin work off/on... I've just been doing glycine lately - which helps me sleep. Glycine was low in my Nutreval test. Whatever that pathway is, I think fixing it is key for me.

    thanks
     
  8. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    Some users report severely negative reactions after taking methyl donors. I was one of them. My body broke everywhere in hives, rashes, and pityriasis rosea. For the first time in my life, I had food sensitivity and severe constipation. I took 1,000 mcg of mb 12 at first and reduced it to 500 mcg later, but still experienced severe side effects.

    I think the way you respond to methylation really depends on not only your genetic profile, but also toxin levels in the body. According to my observation, it seems like people with sensitivity to sulfur or ammonia buildup have difficult times dealing with initial methylation. The only way you would know is to start low and play around with titration.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  9. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    For me once I added carnitine fum to mB12, adB12 and folate, I felt much better within a few days. That lasted a few weeks until folate deficiency symptoms showed up. That's taken a year to abate. I hardly get those anymore.

    But what we've observed is that it's a constant juggling, titrating and retitrating act to get the right amounts of potassium, folate, zinc, B12, B complex and possibly others, day by day, once you're taking the 4 main ones.

    You need to be vigilant and self aware and read what the symptoms of deficiency are for each of the most common methylation induced deficiencies (usually potassium, folate, zinc, in that order.)

    Have you read Caledonia's Roadblock to methylation document?

    How are things going @ebethc?
     
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  10. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    are the deficiency symptoms in caledonia's roadblock doc? my main problems are very generic... brain fog (most stubborn); joint pain; fatigue; general aches/pains.

    what are the 4 main ones? folate, mb12, zinc, potassium?
     
  11. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @ebethc, I second @ahmo about LCF. It may give you the energy boost you're looking for, to let you know something's going on. Doctor's Best is the best brand of that.

    Also, adenosylcobalamin (adB12). Are you taking that? If not, advise to add that in. It's also a booster. Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex is the best brand for that.

    These four "main ones" (mfolate, mB12, adB12, and LCF) make up @Freddd's "Deadlock Quartet". These are the foundational things necessary to get methylation going well. He called it the Deadlock Quartet because lack of any one of these four could "deadlock" the process (and make it not go correctly).

    And like @helen1 said, other things may be necessary for you to proceed, or just to benefit you. Zinc, some of the other B vitamins like p5p, B2, etc., potassium, magnesium, molybdenum, manganese, lithium, etc. Lots of things need to be tweaked and adjusted as you get methylation started and you begin to heal.
     
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  12. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @whodathunkit @ahmo
    thanks for your feedback! I just took some LCF this morning (340 mg, Pure Encapsulations) but didn't notice anything..I took some SAMe and didn't know anything (sometimes helps w brain fog & joint pain, then poops out.. today nothing).. I took some potassium, too, after reading caledonia's doc again..I had a teaspoon of coconut oil, too, which made me feel more relaxed.

    about an hour ago, I took 800mcg metafolin and 1000 mcg MB12... I took high doses yesterday, but didn't sleep well and felt wired/tired today, and my head is not as clear as it could be.... I had planned to take today off from metafolin/mb12, but I didn't like the way I felt... and I'm so tired of not feeling well, and, most of all, I HAVE to get back to work..

    I love magnesium, and I just pulled out the zinc. No lithium, I'm hypoT and don't want to go back to having thyroid problems.. All the lithium supps are 5 mg which is too much, and the trace mineral compounds all include iodine, which I can't tolerate at all.

    I'll look around for the adeno... I have lots of methylation supps since starting this whole odyssey in earnest last year..

    How do you get your mind to be relaxed , clear and focused? is that the $20,000 question ? :)
     
  13. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    Ha! Ha. Ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

    I'm sorry, what was the question again? :p:D

    Seriously, I'm still having issues with scattered thoughts and brain fog. But these issues were not necessarily brought on by methylation protocol or anything I've done here at PR, and will probably take a lot to get rid of permanently. They were present before I started all this and although methylation did exacerbate them sometimes, they always returned to my "pre-Phoenix Rising baseline". Which, sadly, is where they are now.

    Incidentally, choline and sulbutiamine (a powerful fat-soluble analog of thiamine) along with a nootropic called "Noopept" helped me entirely get rid of brain fog for a few weeks, as well as gave me a semi-miraculous boost in motivation and energy. But ultimately I had some side effects with the "stack" of supplements so stopped it. I may return to it after a while, when I get my current bout of inflammation calmed down and get myself more stable with the stuff I'm doing for my gut.

    FWIW, I've read that very high dose thiamine (like 600mg/day) can produce very good effects on cognitive function. Since you're already looking at thiamine, you might consider looking that. I know there's at least one person on PR who's tried it, because I read the posts after searching the boards, but I don't remember who or if the person is still around. I may try that one of these days.
     
  14. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    which choline do you recommend? i like the jarrow brand, and they have something call "citicoline" and natures way had a choline/inositol combo.... which one do you think is better?

    Good luck w the inflammation... what are you doing for it? what do you think causes it? I just got an infrared sauna, and it FEELS like it reduces my inflammation, but too early to tell.. I take omegas & probiotics, too and quit grains
     
  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    how much choline did you take? a high dose, or the dose on the bottle? this jarrow "citicoline cdp choline" gets good reviews...the directions say 250 mg is a serving

    http://www.amazon.com/Citicoline-25...=1426639928&sr=1-2&keywords=jarrow citicoline
     
  16. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    Once I got my MAO A +/+ mutation stablized (with B2) - I could feel my body producing glutathione within 1 hour after taking B12 and methylfolate
     
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  17. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    That's great! Which form of B2 did you take?
     
  18. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    Solgar B2 50mg... 1/4 capsule twice a day (in addition to my riboflavin-containing B-complex in the AM). Before resupplying B2 I was overstimulated by methylation supplements like B12 and methylfolate. After, few problems
     
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  19. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    I keep seeing a couple of different things (now the B2) suggesting for handling MAO-A +/+ ... does anyone know if I should be factoring that into my treatment attempts with MAO-A +/-? For example, I've been told Tumeric is horrid for MAO-A +/+; and so far it's done nothing for me (neither good nor bad)... but I'd hate to think I'm just building up to a bad reaction later because the +/- just meant I didn't realize it sooner...
     
  20. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    I worked up to a bad reaction w turmeric last December... Since it's so helpful w inflammation (supposedly) I thought it should be helpful for me... However, it was just nothing until is was harmful.

    I'm going to try the B2, (active form) next.
     

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