Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by heapsreal, Jul 31, 2012.
posting this as i think it will be of interest to most of us.
Very interesting heapsreal, it certainly takes in/explains my own various problems. I assume "stress" was an initial/probably persisting infection - (it was).
i think its important to have good dhea levels before one looks at increasing a low cortisol level. Also early stages of adrenal fatigue cortisol is high and dhea drops off, this would also be an important time to look at dhea supplements as they help counteract the negative aspects of cortisol. cortisol/dhea are a yin and yang type of relationship.
If cortisol is shown to be low on testing, I think it is a mistake to only supplement with DHEA and hope that will bring up the cortisol level somehow because it generally won't be able to do so by itself. Most of the time one will need both HC and DHEA to correct a deficiency.
I do agree that there is a stage where cortisol and dhea have a yin and yang relationship but that is not always the case. In later stages of HPA dysfunction, cortisol and DHEA can both be low and there is no evidence that shows that increasing DHEA further lowers cortisol. Instead, the studies that have been done show that those with Addison's disease (ie no cortisol production) do much better when DHEA is added into the mix.
DHEA seems to be a hormone where the form and brand are crucially important. The lipid matrix or micronized forms seem to be vastly superior to other forms in terms of absorption and effect.
Good video. I just took another saliva test. Results are back. Will see doc for results.
Apparently methylation is very important to the functioning of the adrenal gland. I started doing the simplified methylation protocol and found I needed to cut my cortisol dose in half.
Anyone have a similar experience?
All my tests have shown low cortisol and apart from Dr Wessely's "CFS" patients all the published research shows low cortisol.
There are theories of adrenal fatigue that say it can be high cortisol followed by low but there is no proof that this occurs in CFS or ME patients. Individuals are always going to be different of course.
What im getting at is i think its a problem increasing cortisol with a low dhea level. need dhea to counteract the catabolism effects of cortisol and other negative effects of cortisol. Cortisol is needed to make energy and help with inflammation.
High cortisol with low dhea just makes one overstimulated and my experience feel like crap, very wired but tired. MAybe one needs to slowly add both, but i found slowly increasing dhea first worked for me. my cortisol hadnt bottomed out as much like my dhea but my cortisol was in the low normal. I initially start with a transdermal cream with both pregnenolone/dhea (preg to help increase cortisol), basically it made me bounce off the walls, virtually no sleep and was very angry like a roid rage. After a break i started supplementing dhea at 5mg with out pregnenolone and slowly increased it in 5mg increments until i got to 25mg a day, this got my dhea levels into the middle of the reference range. Now that im adding pregnenolone to help with cortisol, i am tolerating it alot better. When i had low dhea levels i could barely tolerate 5mg of pregnenolone(preg did increase my cortisol and testosterone, no effect on dhea), my initial bad experience with preg i used 50mg which sent me whacky. Now with good dhea levels i am supplementing pregnenolone 50mg and not having those overstimulated effects but just a good smooth amount of energy. I do think the dhea has protected me from the negative parts of increased cortisol.
I dont think someone with very low cortisol is going have it increase their cortisol levels using dhea, but i think as they increase cortisol levels one may need to start increasing dhea. I am just generalising but i think adrenal hormone treatments need to be tailored to the individual, again we all react very differently.
That's interesting Heaps.When my cortisol was first tested in 1999(ish) the doctor treating it then also tested for DHEA and if both were low supplemented together.
This video is extremely helpful to non-medical people like me.
Ema, you state "DHEA seems to be a hormone where the form and brand are crucially important. The lipid matrix or micronized forms seem to be vastly superior to other forms in terms of absorption and effect."
How would I know if the DHEA that I'm taking is the correct one? I just grabbed whatever I found at the pharmacy. Is there a particular brand I should be using? Or something I should be looking for on the bottle? (I'm taking 25 mg in the morning so I can sleep at night.)
Also, you mentioned that one should be taking "HC". What is HC? (I obviously have the brain issues the video spoke about... )
Thanks to everyone for posting.
HC is hydrocortison aka cortisol
dhea probably could help low cortisol indirectly, all hormones come from cholesterol then pregnenolone and in times of stress pregnenolone is shuttled towards cortisol at the expense of other hormones, therefore dhea and other sex hormones drop. im assuming now but supplementing with dhea could possibly allow more pregenolone to be shuttled into making more cortisol???
Another thing is that high cholesterol is a sign of stress and that your body is trying to make more hormones, so cholesterol drugs could potentially worsen adrenal hormone issues.
Those with low cortisol could possibly be helped by supplementing pregnenolone, but i would suggest very small doses to start like 5mg or less, transdermal is said to be the best way to take pregnenolone. But be careful as many have had problems with pregnenolone as i have had, it can overstimulate some. i did post a video of pregnenolone steal awhile ago which is of interest to those wanting to know more about adrenal fatigue.
found it here go's
Great! Thanks for posting. I'm taking licorice root and now I know why....
It should say on the bottle or in the description if the form is lipid matrix or micronized. Generally it is slightly more expensive as well but DHEA is still a very affordable supplement in my opinion.
I take Allergy Research Group. Here is a picture of the label so you can see the wording:
I have also heard good things about Schiff and Natrol.
If you want to know if your brand is working though, you can always get a DHEA-S lab run to see if it is increasing your level.
Yes, HC is hydrocortisone. Sorry!
Thx. I just checked. Mine is Natrol and I'm pretty sure it's working... So many supplements, so little money....
You can also try a Google Site Search
Separate names with a comma.