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How flu vaccine caused narcolepsy.... autoimmune disease

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Helen, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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  2. Ecoclimber

    Ecoclimber Senior Member

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    There are a number of posts and threads already on this topic so maybe there should be a merge. Of course a reminder during this flu season is helpful.
  3. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    very interesting ...
  4. Ren

    Ren .

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    A random google search for history of narcolepsy theory:

    "Most of the early theories on the cause of narcolepsy were based on patient named von Zastow. He was a convicted rapist in the 19th century. Doctors believed that due to too much of masturbation and suppressed homosexuality, von Zastow suffered from excessive day time sleepiness..."

    http://www.rocketswag.com/health/disease/n/narcolepsy/History-Of-Narcolepsy.html
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  5. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    Those are also implicated in MS and autism...

    HLA-DR activation markers in ME
    Ren likes this.
  6. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    Lets pull a collection together of those funny things doctors believe in NOW, that we know will be laughed at in the future.
  7. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    It was obvious at least a couple of years ago that this vaccine was causing the narcolepsy; WHO had reports of this from about 8 countries but were sworn to secrecy as to which countries. I wrote a post about it at the time because I was struck by the nature of the arguments made that this was probably not accurate - and in particular the agencies and individuals who were advancing that particular rearguard action.

    So now it's clear that a vaccine can provoke an autoimmune disorder by confusing CD4 T+ cells into attacking part of the brain eh? Veeery interesting...
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  8. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    @Mark wrote: So now it's clear that a vaccine can provoke an autoimmune disorder by confusing CD4 T+ cells into attacking part of the brain eh? Veeery interesting...

    (I posted the link above separated from the sad story of narcolepsy, as the result in this new study could be of interest in ME/CFS from a new point of view).

    The author of the article wrote that it "isn’t the vaccine per se that causes narcolepsy, but the underlying influenza virus on which the drug is based."

    Then genetic defects in common, showed to be the underlying cause- and the vaccine, the trigger.

    Maybe genetics, more than the so common mutations in the B12/folate metabolism among PWME´s, will show a similar connection, or even causation, to ME/CFS and the immune reactions. Wish the Stanford group would do research on ME/CFS too...
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  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    The article indicates that mutations in Human Leukocyte Antigens genes are the culprit.

    There are about 45 HLA- genes, so I'm looking through the 11 full 23andMe results that I have access to, to see if there's a pattern of problems in one or more those genes. I've looked at 8 genes so far this morning, and nothing too impressive yet. Just a few somewhat rare-ish genotypes more ME/CFS patients have than the "controls" (general population prevalence data + 15 23andMe profiles from normals).
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  10. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    The vaccine originally used was one from 2009. I have yet to read this entire report, but narcolepsy is not a result of the vaccine, it would seem, and vaccines change year on year I believe:

  11. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    A bit like saying 'it isn't the dog that bit you, but part of the dog called canine teeth ... '.

    Beyond silly.
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  12. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    :lol:

    Spot on Natasa.
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  13. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Let me see if I understand --
    It's the H1N1 virus that caused the narcolepsy, so the people who developed narcolepsy from the vaccine would have developed narcolepsy if they had been infected with the virus independently of the vaccine...? So it's not the vaccine that's flawed; it's the concept of vaccines in general? Or maybe the belief that everyone can safely be injected with an attenuated virus?

    As I understand it, they did not think the adjuvent in the vaccine contributed to the problem. Is that the way others read this information? I didn't see how they explained that the GSK H1N1 vaccine caused this problem but other H1N1 vaccines did not? Did anybody catch that?
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  14. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    It appears that - and this was interesting - the influenza virus within the vaccine - triggered narcolepsy in those predisposed to it, but that - and from my understanding, if a narcoleptic gets H1N1 normally, the same thing can occur:

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  15. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    Absolutely. As well as the belief that a virus, or a vaccine, could not possibly trigger neurological dysfunction or autoimmunity.

    Funny how some are now desperate to slap this genetic 'disclaimer' onto findings and blame the victims. I predicted this a while ago...


    To go back to the dog analogy :) 'the way you walk is so provoking to the dogs, so yes, my pitbull did maul and disfigure you, but it isn't its fault you know, or my inability to control it ... it is the fact that you are susceptible to dog attacks.'
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  16. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    It was the 'fault' of Glaxo to not determine beforehand that there was a potential problem with the vaccine. That is not being argued here. What I find very interesting, is the acknowledgement that this strain of the flu can trigger narcolepsy in those that are genetically susceptible. What is even more interesting, is the acknowledgement that autoimmune disease triggered by a virus such as the flu, can lead to neurological (and potential irreversible) damage. If any of that is wrong, I apologise, as I said I haven't read the links in the report in detail.
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  17. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    My understanding is that it is well established that vaccines of any kind, have the potential to cause autoimmunity. The WHO had a big meeting behind closed doors years ago where they agreed that (later reported after FOI stuff).
    The reason they keep doing it is because of the 'greater good'. I'm happy enough with that but they do not adequately provide data on the risks and they don't do enough to help people and establish links when people get ill following vaccines. Only when it is so clear and the symptoms so stark like in this case. And even then the message seems to be 'tough luck'
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  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    For me the biggest problem is the pretty much blanket statement that the flu vaccine is safe for everyone. It's that sort of attitude which continues to cause problems. Currently healthy people obviously can have very adverse reactions to vaccines, yet there is no interest in determining why that is happening, or in screening people to see if they should be getting vaccinated, or in even warning people that they might have an adverse reaction.

    This happened in multiple studies of the flu vaccine in ME/CFS patients. There was an abnormal immune reaction of unknown duration (they stopped checking blood samples after a month I think), yet the researchers concluded that ME/CFS patients should definitely be vaccinated anyhow. While I can appreciate the harm done by ardent anti-vaccination sentiments, it's just as bad to swing in the other direction, and additionally adds fuel to the anti-vax fire.

    Vaccines need to stop being about politics and profits, and more about serious and thorough science.
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  19. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    To some extent things like vaccines have to be a numbers game: risk of exposure to the actual virus and whatever infection might entail vs. risk of a side-effect no matter how serious that effect might be.

    Proving a genuine side-effect is hard I would imagine, and drug companies will I am sure claim they test as much as possible before applications are made for licensing, and again if the authorities request more tests. But as can be seen here, and despite the low prevalence or risk, they didn't check hard enough and the marketed benefits for a vaccine seen as desperately needed at the time - exceeded any concerns.

    I think in 2011 CFS/ME was ranked a priority illness for flu vaccination by the NHS - which meant it could be had for free. I forget why, but I think it was because of its' neurological nature - if memory serves it was positioned alongside Parkinson's. There was a bit of a rumpus about it and I don't think it remains a priority today.

    I don't think many of us have acquired true influenza. I know I wouldn't want to. I have just recovered from the 'flu' and that was bad enough. Of course one never really knows what strain of cold/flu one has acquired, and even had I had the vaccine this year it may not have prevented me acquiring whatever it was I did have.

    There is evidence of vaccines being triggers for CFS/ME. Different vaccines. Which makes me wonder if all vaccines then can be leading to the same problem or if what is regarded as a precipitating event is not one. How we might ever know, I don't know.
  20. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Yup. But why is it still a numbers game? Why do we have to gamble and play the odds when scientific research could hold the answers if anyone cared to look?
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