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A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
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How do you all deal with the mood symptoms?

Discussion in 'Cognition' started by InvertedTree, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. InvertedTree

    InvertedTree Senior Member

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    I notice that when I've overdone it or when I'm having a viral infection or even a flare I get terrible depression.

    The depression is almost worse than the mood symptoms. I know there are neurological issues and I'm sure my hormones are a mess (waiting on test results) but nothing I'm doing helps the mood symptoms.

    I just got taken off Valcyte because my liver enzymes were elevated. I was on it for 7.5 months and the mood symptoms started while on Valcyte.

    What do you all do when you're in that dark place?

    The depression plus the isolation is really getting to me. I'd be willing to try an antidepressant but while my liver enzymes are whacked I'm guessing I need to wait?
     
  2. Lisa

    Lisa Senior Member

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    Hi Terri. :)

    I found myself in that dark place this last week. Had been mostly out of it for several months now but the sudden change in my body's systems when I went off everything sure put me back there pretty fast.

    What works for me though is St. John's Wort. Doesn't seem to have any noticeable side effects. But you should talk about it with your doctor first, it does do stuff with the liver. In my case, its beneficial stuff but your doctor should be able to know if it would be bad. Here's a good looking page on it: http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h20.htm

    GABA will sometimes help pull me out a bit too. Rebalance the GABE to Glutamate ratio this way.

    Its a little silly, but I'll hit youtube for a bit and search puppy videos. Hard not to start feeling better when watching cute little puppies. lol

    Go for a small walk if you can or do some light stretching. Something to get the blood circulating and some endorphins pumping. That usually improves my mood a bit too.

    This is all that comes to mind. It can be hard, especially when its internal stuff making you down. Couldn't hurt to check out some of the EFT stuff here on the forums. Might find that if you start doing it every day for even just a few minutes, after a week or two you may suddenly notice that you're feeling a lot better. Just pick something that's bugging you and making you down, but not too big at first, and start tapping the points. Can be something like "Even though I'm sad because its a cloudy day" or that you're bummed because you've got dirty dishes. :) Pretty much anything goes. And if you feel odd about doing it, having a hard time getting past it's woo woo factor, tap on that feeling too. :) I think that was the only way I was able to start really getting benefit from it, tapping on all my awkwardness about doing it.

    I hope some of this helps. :) Definitely check with your doctor about the St. John's Wort. Should be easier on your system than a prescription antidepressant and give it 4-6 weeks before giving up on it not working. Takes time to really get noticable results. I remember when I first started it, thought it wasn't working but kept taking it while putting it out of my mind that I should watch for it. About two months after starting it I suddenly realized that it had been a couple weeks since I was in that really dark place. So give it time. :)

    Hug,
    Lisa :)
     
  3. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Terri,

    You asked, " How do you all deal with the mood symptoms? "

    Badly.:rolleyes:
     
  4. Cynthia

    Cynthia Guest

    Lisa, I like the idea of puppy videos. I used to rescue dogs, still foster once in a while. Love dogs. I'll have to check out the puppy videos, next time I'm in that not so good mood!
     
  5. Cynthia

    Cynthia Guest

    Terri, you mentioned that when you over do, you have depression. Flare up, depressinon. That was one of the first things my dr. did was put me on an anti-depressant when I was diagnosed. He says if you are in pain every day of your life, you'll probably have some depression...so, I'm on a small dose of Celexa. Not sure how it effects the liver? Talk with your doc..I hear it's one of the best ones out there.
    Try and take it easy, don't over do...I know, easier said than done.
    When I'm in that dark place, I try and think of the good things in my life. I know, easier said than done again...but it does help me.
    Terry, I hope you are feeling well now. Take it easy. Get some rest. :) Lisa had some great ideas..fun things to watch, and excerise is supposed to help, even if it's only for a short period of time. I can't do much more than walking, or sitting and doing the arm work outs as Lisa mentioned. Swimming is easier on our bodies. Whatever you can do, excerise is a good idea. Take care!
     
  6. kolowesi

    kolowesi Senior Member

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    Terri black moods and valcyte detox

    Hi, Terri,

    I guess it is time to go off valcyte, since your liver is complaining.

    In many treatments, I've reached detox capacity before the meds had finished their job. Lots of us actually feel better after we go off, I hope to hear from you about that.

    But valcyte caused me some detox, and it happened when I went off, two different times. I had mania both times, followed by hostility/irritability/depression. Mine went away after a few days.

    So I would suggest anything that you know of that helps detox, in addition to the other wonderful suggestions, such as puppy-watching:)

    As much vitamin C as you can tolerate, I'm taking a special kind called lipo-spheric plus the buffered kind. Vitamin C IV's if you go for that kind of thing; they help me on many levels.

    Green juice. I have trouble making myself do this, but parsley, kale, celery, carrot and cucumber are really great for me.

    Epsom salt baths, or anything that makes you sweat. Shower right after or toxins are reabsorbed. Can you sit in the sun?

    Extra fiber to pull toxins out of the colon. I use ground flax seed and Jarrow Heavy Metal Detox (modified citrus pectin and sodium alginate).

    Valcyte had very specific mood-altering affects, which were even more marked when I went off the darn stuff. Is that what drug metabolites do??

    Oh, yeah, mashed potatoes. Don't know if that's a good long-term fix, but it is very soothing. Some of us do better with low carbs (I am one), but there is a definite comfort food effect for me.

    Hang in there and let us know if you notice any new emotional effects. I hope this is over soon!

    Kelly
     
  7. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    Mashed potatoes!

    MASHED POTATOES!

    Yes! Brilliant!

    Peace

    PS No SSRIs or anything like for me, ever! Scary bad reaction.

    PPS When I first got sick I got wicked PMS for 14 days per mo. and found B6, Bcomplex and cal/mag a HUGE HELP!

    PPPS Community is a huge help. Come here!

    PPPPS YouTube! I watch puppies and Buddhist teachings.

    PPPPPS Did I say: MASHED POTATOES!
     
  8. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    Terri

    You will not grow if you sit in a beautiful flower garden, But you will grow if you are sick, If you are in pain, if you experience losses, And if you do not put your head in the sand, But take the pain as a gift to you with a very, very specific purpose.
    -Elizabeth Kuhbler-Ross

    In the darkest of moods, covered in mashed potatoes and weeping, this is really what gets me through - the quote you have chosen.

    When I'm angry and full of despair (like yesterday :eek:) I remind myself that this is what my spirit needs. I remind myself that I make absolutely no progress in good times. In fact, spiritually, I regress in good times.

    In bad times, I try to remember what you have chosen as your signature. Thank you for chosing it. We need to remember it.

    And, we need mashed potatoes, too.
    Peace out,
    k
     
  9. kolowesi

    kolowesi Senior Member

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    Koan covered in mashed potatoes

    I can't stop laughing at the image of you covered in mashed potatoes and weeping. You are so funny:D:D:D:D

    I loved what you said about what happens when we are scoured out by the hard times. Once I thought of analogy: life is like taking a bath, and if I do a good job, a lot of dirt goes down the drain when I die.

    Terri, that is such a beautiful quote and it gives me much-needed good energy.

    It does help so much to laugh.

    Love,
    Kelly
     
  10. InvertedTree

    InvertedTree Senior Member

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    Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions and for the support.

    I loved the mashed potatoes! I'm covered in them now. :D

    I've taken notes on all of your suggestions.

    Many people seem to be in a flare up or crash lately. Any ideas as to why?

    You're all wonderful. It helps to connect and eases that sense of isolation.

    I'm very grateful for the internet.

    Now I just have to find my way out of this crash. It just keeps on going!
     
  11. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hi Terri--

    What great responses to your question! I am so glad you started this thread. I have used many of the things suggested. Especially detox is important when I'm
    depressed, or agitated and depressed (oh yes, my FAVORITE COMBO) :p:mad::rolleyes: Sometimes just remembering to drink a lot of fluids: water, lemon water
    and my VERY MOST EFFECTIVE all around detoxifier----RED CLOVER TEA. I used to drink that by the gallon when I was severely chemically sensitive. It saved me
    from jumping off a cliff, so I actually created a little altar for it. Amazing gentle simple herb. A lawn weed in many parts of this country, wouldn't you know it.

    Also, if your liver is really overloaded with toxins, the N-A-C is MEGA helpful. I have just today gotten clear of a very toxic heavy metal detox by taking about
    4000 mg/day.

    Also, I am a big fan of catharsis. Giving my feelings EXPRESSION through some kind of art (I paint) or music... by really indulging in the dark mood, can be
    HUGELY helpful. You know, like singing whatever comes to your mind while you soak in the bath tub. One night I just sang ow-eee ow-eee ow--eee over and over
    for a half an hour, making up dark very dissonant evil sounding "songs" with it. After a while it started to sound so hilarious, that I knew I had moved the mood
    to a new place.

    Yes, it can be good to look at puppy videos, for some people, but I just don't have the personality for that. I would rather dress up as a Wagnerian opera star
    and wail! :eek:
     
  12. andreamarie

    andreamarie Senior Member

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    I've reacted to every one of the seventeen antidepressants I've tried, which is depressing. I keep some things on my DVR that will make me laugh: 30 Rock, The Office, Curb Your Enthusiasm. I know this sounds bizarre, but sometimes I watch QVC if they have fashions or makeup. It's so mindless. The important thing is to tell yourself that this will pass. It's hard to believe when you're in it.
     
  13. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

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    coping mechanisms

    hi Terri

    Love all the coping mechanisms your post is generating.

    THis might be an odd one: When I was first hit with ME/CFS I could barely move or think. The world was soooooooo small, difficult and pretty terrifying. What helped get me through was that I would repeat to myself "I'm not being bombed. I'm not being raped. I'm not starving. I'm not being beat-up. I'm not dying......... " and things of that ilk, imagining what conditions people are in around the world this second. So even in h**l, somehow keeping my sense of relativity and realizing many others have it even worse helped.

    Have another friend who would throw her hairbrush against her wall and scream out curses and whatall - catharsis at the cost of dented drywall!

    Read in Taipan I think was of having a 'screaming tree'. A tree (or whatever substitute) one goes to and vents all ones fears, concerns, anger.......... at and them leaves it there.

    Another one is the buddhist idea of states of being being like clouds in the sky - we are the sky and the clouds will pass through - like reminding ourselves that "this too shall pass", but somehow the images help me. I also do tai chi and can add doing (or visualising) cloud hands to help move things along.

    And self-distraction almost always works for me - if I can find something to do (or think about) that I have to focus on.

    And now we all can add the image of dreambirdie dressed up like a wagnerian opera star screaming at the fates to make ourselves smile! :D:D:D
     
  14. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    Dressed up like a Wagnerian opera singer AND covered in mashed potatoes?

    I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who makes altars to pills: I just started one to my active B12s this morning! And not just because they're helping my energy level physically, although that is a miracle.

    It's because, over on the B12 thread, I found out that depression may well be (at least partly) a symptom of active B12 deficiency. Now this goes against everything I've ever believed about depression, but when I first started taking sublingual adenosylB12 (one of the two active forms), its effects made me wonder if it could be that simple. I posted that, and Freddd (deviser of this protocol) said that in his case, taking the active B12s rolled away a lifelong depression. Rich, who has a protocol of his own and has also done a lot of research on this, followed up by saying there is actually a pharmaceutical antidepressant based on different type of B vitamins and cofactors. So, if you don't have any sensitivities to the fillers in sublinguals, I think active B12s + might well be worth a try. If you want to try it, go over to the B12 thread: which brands you buy, how you titrate them, and the reactions you may have are a long complicated road. I'm only a few weeks down it and even with the nausea and dizziness being temporarily exacerbated I'm...cheerful. It's bizarre. I'm not even naturally cheerful!

    I've had depression all my life; I think sometimes it's just natural (I mean if you're in pain or depressing circumstances or you've lost someone or something dear to you, it seems inhuman not to grieve) but when it goes on too long I do the distraction thing, get involved in a project that really engages me, watch or listen to or read something that makes me laugh or that touches me; be in touch with friends.

    I also do the woo woo stuff: EFT (kind of off and on with that, but every time I do it I wonder why I don't do it more often), and I also use InnerTalk CDs, subliminals which really are more effective than other hypno-tapes I've used. I also find beauty to be an incredible healer of the soul, however you define that: getting out in nature does a lot for me. So do baths. I've also played with color-in-the-aura meditations from *Change Your Aura, Change Your Life* (by Barbara Y. Martin). And I do less ethereal stuff, such as binge on trashy books (or videos) and eat a lot of sweets (or at least as much as my digestion can handle).


    Aromatherapy, too: lavender and orange and geranium oils are good for depression and inexpensive; rose and jasmine are also good but expensive (unless they're fake, in which case they're useless). But aromatherapy is also making sure there are scents in your environment that you love, whatever they may be, (baking bread, leather, reed mats, herbs). This affects our stem brains, the ones we share with lizards - that must surely be the part that holds depression. Feels like it.

    One of the best things I've discovered recently? Not being so damn hard on myself and not expecting me (or anyone else) to reach perfection. Not only is it depressing, it's also stupid. It doesn't work.

    Now I'll have to try the mashed potatoes.
     
  15. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

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  16. Jerry S

    Jerry S Senior Member

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    Hi Finn,

    I got the giggles just looking at the titles. I don't think I dare look at the videos now.

    Getting sleepy here. :cool:
     
  17. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hi Sunday--

    Yes! This is the BIG one. Everything else is just... mashed potatoes. :cool:;):)
     

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