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How do we stop Liver disease (Fatty Liver, Hepatic Statosis, type 2 diabetes, mitochondrial disease)

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by prioris, May 27, 2017.

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What kind of Liver Disease do you have

  1. Fatty Liver

    9 vote(s)
    81.8%
  2. Hepatic Steatosis (Liver infammation etc)

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  3. Hepatic Cirrhosis

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Liver Cancer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Liver Failure (I expect 0 responses)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    Some weeks back I came to realize that my liver had inflammation. This has been going on for some years but it wasn't as severe. I remember years back whenever I had too much gas in my colon, it would cause pain in the middle bottom of my rib cage sternum. Once I pushed the air out, the pain subsided. Looking back, my liver likely had some more milder inflammation. I also thought maybe the pain was from gallstones pain I had.

    I started doing some liver/gallstone cleanses about 6 weeks back which I am not done and will write about later. About a couple weeks ago I felt really deathly. I got hit with kidney stone attack first. I took rememdy and that calmed down. Neuropathy started to flare all over especially feet. I didn't know what was going on. After I found that L-carnitine calm down the neuropathy, I started researching further.


    First thing I came across was mitochondrial disease. I noticed a lot of people suffering with disease have neuropathy.

    Second thing I noticed was that the supplements that people with type 2 diabetes were the same ones that people with mitochondrial disease take.

    Third thing I found was a you tube video on curing type 2 diabetes. This guy was curing diabetes by limiting fats. He would have most people stop taking their insulin first day and they were allowed to eat carbohydrates. I later realized it was the saturated fats he was curtailing.

    Fourth thing I found led me to fatty liver disease. When fatty liver disease leads to inflammation of the liver, it is called hepatic steatosis. If it progresses further, it is called cirrhosis, cancer/liver failure.

    So I came to realize that my liver was clogged with saturated fats. That makes sense since I ate a lot of butter and use only coconut oil. It also solved the mystery why some people have difficulties with coconut oil too so should suspect they have fatty liver disease build up.

    I did have the standard liver tests before I did gallstone cleanse about two months ago. The test results for liver came back normal. I had it done about 6 months ago also. My A1C came back 5.0. It wasn't detecting any abnormality so I crossed the liver as a possible problem back then and must be something else.

    My normal way of diagnosing is taking the remedy so I researched hepatic stetosis.


    It can be treated with PolyenthylPhosphatidylCholine (PPC I use Life extension Hematopro because it is lowest cost), SiliPhos (10X better absorption), L-carnitine and lowering saturated fats/raising Omega 3 can heal and cleanse the liver.

    Here is the treatment I put together

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Polyenylphosphatidylcholine
    1 at end of each meal so 2 per day (I tried 3 but too much)

    Siliphos Two 360 mg (120mg silybin) after each meal (Twice a day)

    Omega 3 Kril Oil + Udol oil with each meal

    ON EMPTY STOMACH at least hour before meals
    L-Carnitine Tartrate 500mg 2Xday
    NA-R-ALA 100mg
    Benfotiamine 300mg/therapeutic (or 150mg/maintenance) 2xday

    5-Lox (morning and night for inflammation for first week)

    DIET

    REMOVE Coconut oil and Butter from diet and high saturated foods
    I still get some saturated fats.
    USE GMOFree Canola Oil, Safflower Oil
    Take ConjugatedLinoleicAcid 3 capsules/day ( with any saturated fat meal )

    Setria sublingual glutathione 50 mg (dissolve under tongue 3Xday for week because I just had it available)

    MISCELLANEOUS

    With FOOD
    Ubiquinol 100mg 2xday with fatty meal


    On EMPTY STOMACH
    PQQ 10mg
    Coenzyme B complex 1 capsule (has B5 Pantethine, B6 P5P)
    1.25 mg Sublingual methylcobalamin(B12)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    RESULTS
    The sternum area was painful when I started. At day 8 I noticed major progress. After second week, I feel better. I will continue this for maybe 6 months but not sure. I slightly lower dosage as symptoms resolve. My neuropathy calmed down more. The Benfotiamine is most impoortant for neuropathy.

    I do feel much healthier but usually another problem strikes that I need to figure out how to solve... a continuing saga LOL


    Perusing around the internet I notice many doctors dealing with fatty liver solutions don't mention PPC or the above. They have people resolve fatty liver thru their diets instead and more indirect method. That is a weak approach I think and would take much longer. Some people ask for stronger approaches but they claim their way is the only way. They don't even mention the connection of saturated fats to diabetes. There are doctors who know what they are doing but too many just follow the official treatment line.

    If something can treat hepatis steatosis, wouldn't it make sense to use it for the less severe fatty liver too.

    As I clean out my liver, I will try to introduce more saturated fats but I will take these supplements to help me metabolize fats better. I will try to balance the Omega fats with it also.

    I will make adjustments as I find out new things

    Chinese medicine says that the Liver is the General of your army of other organs so I will go all out to take care of that organ. The thing I hate about Chinese medicine is that it is very cryptic about the liver and other organs talking about chi, dampness, heat etc when there is no need.

    If the liver starts becoming dynfunctional so many ailments can develop in the body.

    NOTE: Normally I would have difficulty taking Phosphatidylcholine (13% choline) or any choline since I had severe MTHFR reaction taking folate and b12. Lithium orotate solved that. I posted about it.

    They say about 1/3 of the population has fatty liver disease or worse so I have to assume most people with ME/CFIDS have it. You can give your experience.

    ==============================================================
    Here are some excerpted stuff I collected

    -------------------------------
    HERE IS FREE BOOK I FOUND
    https://www.liverdoctor.com/5-ways-to-reverse-fatty-liver/
    ------------------------------

    Fatty liver disease comprises a spectrum ranging from simple steatosis to steatohepatitis which can progress to liver cirrhosis and hepatocellular cancer. Hepatic lipotoxicity may ensue when the hepatic capacity to utilize, store and export fatty acids (FA) as triglycerides is overwhelmed. Additional mechanisms of hepatic lipotoxicity include abnormal FA oxidation with formation of reactive oxygen species, disturbances in cellular membrane FA and phospholipid composition, alterations of cholesterol content and ceramide signalling. Lipotoxicity is a key factor for the progression of fatty liver disease by inducing hepatocellular death, activating Kupffer cells and an inflammatory response, impairing hepatic insulin signalling resulting in insulin resistance, and activation of a fibrogenic response in hepatic stellate cells that can ultimately lead to cirrhosis. Therefore, the concept of hepatic lipotoxicity should be considered in future therapeutic concepts for fatty liver disease.
    -------------------------------
    Human trials have shown that a preparation providing 376 mg silybin, 776 mg phosphatidylcholine, and 360 mg vitamin E produces therapeutic effects in patients with a variety of different forms of liver damage, improving insulin resistance, reducing liver fat accumulation, and reducing blood levels of markers of liver scarring (Trappoliere et al 2005, Federico et al 2006, Trappoliere et al 2005).

    -------------------------------

    Alpha R-Lipoic Acid for a Fatty Liver

    While a growing body of research provides reason to consider ALA for reducing steatosis, three relatively new studies bring this consideration to the next level:

    As published in a February 2012 edition of the journal Obesity, researchers found that supplementing with alpha lipoic acid prevented the accumulation of triglycerides in the liver – a major contributor to fatty liver disease. More specifically, they identified certain genes (SIRT1 and SIRT3) that ALA stimulates to achieve this goal.
    As published in a March 2012 edition of The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, researchers found that alpha lipoic acid has an ability to prevent nonalcoholic steatosis brought on by a high-fat intake. Besides its benefit to the liver, ALA’s benefits also included preventing excessive body weight gain.

    -------------------------------
    Carnitine
    This nutrient is critical for fat metabolism and energy production in the cellular mitochondria and is naturally produced in the liver and kidneys. It ismost concentrated in the heart and skeletal muscles where it plays an important role in energy production and detoxification. It is also found in the brain and male sperm cells.
    -------------------------------
    Choline & Inositol:
    Choline and inositol are co-enzymes that are required for the proper metabolism of fats and have the ability to remove fat from the liver. Choline's function in fat metabolism is tied to its role in bile production because bile acts as emulsifier (allowing water and lipids to combine) to more readily transport fats.

    Choline prevents fats from becoming trapped in the liver, where they can block normal metabolic functions. Choline, as well as inositol, acts as a fat emulsifier that prevents cholesterol from settling on arterial walls. Choline also works well with inositol to utilize fats and cholesterol.

    Inositol is referred to as vitamin B8 and it helps to metabolize fats and cholesterol and aids in transporting fat in the blood system. Thus, inositol is an aid in the redistribution of body fat and can help to lower cholesterol levels.

    -------------------------------
    Benefits of PolyenylPhosphatidylCholine

    Fats and lipids – these include vitamins – are insoluble in water. They need to be emulsified into small particles that are invisible to the eye before they can be digested and taken up by the body. This takes place in the intestines with the aid of PPC and of the bile acids. The excretion of water insoluble substances from the body, the purification of the body by bile, is only possible when the fats form a micellar solution with PPC, bile acids and cholesterol, so that they are taken up in the water and rendered ransportable. It has been demonstrated that there can be disruption of the organism if sufficient PPC is not available for both processes


    Experiments with, for instance, red blood cells have shown that the amount of rigidity present is regulated by the incorporation of PPC with essential fatty acids into the membranes.
    The importance of the membrane-regulating effect of PPC has been especially intensely investigated for the liver. It has been founded that PPC-c
    ontaining primarily unsaturated fatty acids has the following effects on the membranes of damaged liver cells, The fluidity, flexibility, elasticity and enzyme activity of the membranes is increased while their rigidity is reduced.
    Since the functioning of enzymes and ion channels throughout the body
    is a prerequisite for the maintenance of life, it can be taken that the effect of PPC as a dietetic foodstuff taken in adequate quantities daily is not likely restricted to the liver.


    A large surface area is necessary for the exchange of gases between the human body and the environment, this is made possible by the presence of 30 million tiny lung cavities, the alveoli. A membrane consisting of PPC and protein coats the surface of the lung cavities and, thus, prevents them from sticki
    ng together and collapsing. The integrity of the membrane on the lung surface is a requirement for efficient gas exchange. A small proportion of newborn babies do not have enough PPC in their lungs. These babies can be kept alive by introducing PPC into the amniotic fluid of the mother.

    Phospholipids and especially PPC are essential components of the mucosal. Disorders leading to a reduction in the PPC content, or a disruption of the PPC membrane cause pain -or in more severe forms, gastric ulcers or cancer.


    Research on nerve cells has shown that PPC can act as a substitute for the messenger substances acetylcholine. This result is supported by the finding that orally consumed PPC or Choline increases the acetylcholine content of the blood. Experience of the course taken by AZ and other degenerative diseases of the nervous system emphasized the importance of taking PPC prophylactically or at least when the first symptoms are observed. The significance of PPC as an age-dependent substitute for the nervous system is emphasized by the fact that the phospholipid and the PPC content of the brain falls from the age of 30 years on.

    Polyenylphosphatidylcholine as a source of choline for the liver

    The liver is the most metabolically active organ and requires an unknown quantity of the choline per day. Investigations in humans would require li
    ver biopsies and production of deficiency states, and are not acceptable on ethical grounds. Hence, it is necessary to fall back on the results of animal experiments to probe the importance of choline and PPC as a choline source.
    Experiments in 12 species of animals have revealed that choline-deficient diets lead to an accumulation of fat in the liver and in a chronic state to cirrhosis of the liver. It is known that these states are also brought about by excessive alcohol consumption, infections, bacterial toxins, certain chemicals, e.g. solvent carbon tetrachloride and some drugs such as tetracycline’s. Several studies have revealed that these disorders can be treated successfully with PPC containing a high proportion of essential fatty acids. The results obtained in animal experiments with choline must be translated into PPC for human application because choline is moderately toxic and taking it leads to unacceptable mouth and body odors. Therefore, it is re
    asonable then to *assume that regular consumption of PPC must be regarded as the only promising prophylaxis against liver damage.

    IMPORTANCE OF PPC
    http://nutrasal.com/pdf_articles/sig.pdf

    http://nutrasal.com/phoschol.html
    -------------------------------
    Useful dosages of Siliphos®:
    Shows definite advantages of Siliphos® at dosages ranging from 160mg to 360mg (measured as silybin). Dose/effect relationship is also demonstrated with the highest dosage tested getting the most dramatic results.

    Study shows how Siliphos® is dramatically more effective than pure silybin alone. Concludes Siliphos® may be useful in counteracting damage caused by alcohol intake.

    Shows Siliphos® is more effective than its constituents, silybin and phosphatidylcholine, alone. The effectiveness of Siliphos® is considerably greater than the sum of its parts.
    -------------------------------

    how well a person digests fats depends on the health of their liver and gallbladder

    Body Ecology's position is that people with digestive disorders usually have a problem digesting saturated fats, especially when they are cooked. Indeed, how well a person digests fats depends on the health of their liver and gallbladder. Is their liver congested? Is their gallbladder releasing adequate amounts of bile to digest the fats? Are there enough pancreatic enzymes being produced to digest the fats in the small intestine? Bottom line, saturated animal fats are too heavy for people with over-worked or congested livers, especially in the amounts recommended by GAPS.
    -------------------------------
    Omega 6 oil will decrease diabetes

    “The overall scientific picture suggests that we should eat less saturated fat than most of us do, but it is difficult to say what we should eat instead and which types of foods with saturated fat we should avoid,” she says.

    “Fat storage in the liver and around the intestines, and the lower insulin response in the saturated fat group, is associated with an increased risk of developing a number of lifestyle diseases such as type 2 diabetes,” says Dyerberg.


    “Increased muscle mass, on the other hand, which the study found in the omega-6 group, prevents type 2 diabetes. This study therefore indicates that it may be a good idea to swap saturated fat with omega-6 fat from sunflower oil. This may be true in relation to type 2 diabetes, but if we look at the risk of cardiovascular disease, we might see a different picture.”

    http://sciencenordic.com/saturated-fat-increases-diabetes-risk
    -------------------------------
    CAUSE OF TYPE 2 DIABETES
    https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/17/fat-is-the-cause-of-type-2-diabetes/

    This mechanism by which fat induces insulin resistance wasn’t known until fancy MRI techniques were developed to see what was happening inside people’s muscles as fat was infused into their bloodstream. That’s how we found that elevation of fat levels in the blood causes insulin resistance by inhibition of glucose transport into the muscles.

    We can also do the opposite experiment. Lower the level of fat in people’s blood and the insulin resistance comes right down. If we clear the fat out of the blood, we also clear the sugar out. That explains the finding that on the high fat, ketogenic diet, insulin doesn’t work very well.Our bodies become insulin resistant. But as the amount of fat in our diet gets lower and lower, insulin works better and better—a clear demonstration that the sugar tolerance of even healthy individuals can be impaired by administering a low-carb, high-fat diet. We can decrease insulin resistance, however, by decreasing fat intake.

    how that fat can come either from our diet or excess fat stores, and then in Lipotoxicity: How Saturated Fat Raises Blood Sugar, I show how not all fats are equally to blame.
    -------------------------------
    Chart down page hald way shows oil compositions and unsaturated:saturated ratio
    https://oilpalmblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/1-composition-of-palm-oil/

    Canola oil 15.7 ... very low saturated fat ratio
    coconut oil 0.9 ... very very high saturated fat ratio
    palm kernel oil ratio 0.2
    cocoa butter 0.6 also really bad
    lard 1.2

    Good Oils
    canola oil 15.7
    safflower oil 10.1
    corn oil 6.7 (maize oil)
    olive oil 4.6 good
    sunflower 7.3
    walnut oil 5.3

    Safflower Oil is naturally non-GMO. So you don't have to worry about finding a non-GMO alternative safflower oil

    Of the major cooking oils, olive, sunflower, and peanut oil come from crops where no GMO technology is used. In addition, any organic versions of soy or canola oil would not make use of any GM technology.

    -------------------------------------
    Recommended Dosage and Administration
    The recommended daily dose is 2-3 grams (2-3 capsules or 1 tsp. liquid concentrate) once daily. To be administered during meals, with a little liquid if required.

    http://www.phoschol.com/prescribing-information.html

    A therapeutic dose of PPC ranges from 1.8 to 2.7 grams per day. PPC has no known contraindications, side effects, or interactions with medications. It also has an excellent safety profile and is generally well tolerated. The most common reported side effect is gas, which is most strongly associated with very high doses, typically 15 grams or more per day.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    When you say you "came to realize" that you have liver inflammation and fatty liver, are you basing this on symptoms?

    Early stage fatty liver in is very common, around 1 in 3 have it, but it is usually diagnosed by raised ALT in a blood test.
     
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  3. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    I base it on locations of symptoms and remedy and exclusion. I've gotten gazllion of tests in the past and found almost all of them useless. Whenever I break down and decide to get one I regret it. If there was no remedy then getting a diagnosis is moot. Usually there is a remedy so I just do the remedy to test it. I skip a lot of medical bs. i monitor myself for further treatment options if needed.

    Thanks for info on the ALT
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Nonalcoholic fatty liver does not usually have any symptoms, according to this article, except sometimes things like pain in the upper right abdomen.
     
  5. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    but when it progresses it eventually does.

    Upper right abdomen ... hmmm ... makes no sense ... without middle sternum pain I would suspect Gallbladder or even kidney ... . liver is in the middle of body ... pain will be like there is a ball bulging pressure out of muddle sternum

    i did have some spleen swelling i think but i didn't let it progress too far to jaundice etc in terms of symptoms

    sadly, i've read people complaining of pain in sternum and doctor ignoring them ...

    I think best way to first detect it is if there is any pressure or pain in middle of bottom of rib cage sternum and/or towards sides of sternum. That is where the middle of liver is located. One way I track down cause of pain is get out a human anatomy chart and look to see what is in location.

    given that the disease is so silent, people need to listen to their bodies and do their own detective work and search for clues. not wait for a doctor to announce it.
     
  6. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT OLDER PEOPLE ESPECIALLY OVER 50 CLEANSE THEIR LIVERS OF FATS. HEALTHY WISE, A LOT OF BANG FOR THE EFFORT
    (forgot to put that in post)

    I would do the above basic treatment somewhat as I did as part of a cleansing of clogged fat build up in liver for maybe 2 month initially then supplement as maitenance even if there seems to be no problem. Every year especially as you get older, I'd be cleansing it. I'd ttake the PPC, L-carnitine and maybe some Sipholos with any heavy saturated fat meals. You can make up your own liver fat cleanse.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Where did you read that?
     
  8. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    I don't remember necessary reading it but I could have. I use human anatomy pictures mostly I think.
     
  9. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    I also forgot to add that I could feel kidney and gall bladder stone pain so had to manage those with chanca piedra, bicarbonate of soda and lemon juice in water if i need it. i still get a little but it is getting better. overall compared to first week.
     
    Kina likes this.
  10. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Austria
    Me too had a fatty liver in '99 diagnosed as 'amoebic hepatitis', what ever that is. Actually had suffered 7 times malarias (4 of which falciparum) in the preceding 5 years, and along with its treatment suspect rather that as its cause. At that point in time I did feel pain below the right lowest rib after eating anything with fat like curd, or coffee too. Took the well known Ayurvedic LIV.52 at that time.

    Some 6 years later was in hospital due to a bilharzia. Fatty liver at that time was no more, but 2 spots of not circulated nodules the sizes of 5 and 9 mm.

    About again 6 years on got a diagnosis of a serious PAD, which I reversed meanwhile by changing my diet from vegan (since age 10) and very low fat, to low-carb/high fat (due to prediabetes) and starting with very comprehensive supplementation (with many of above mentioned supplements). The nodules found before have meanwhile dissolved too.

    Liver enzymes sometimes are still out of range. Interestingly, whenever even a slight rise, my cholesterols rise along with it much higher. Though in average reduced by 40% since changing diet and starting supplementation. Suggest to me my liver at times is still shedding some fats.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Learner1 likes this.
  11. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Personally would stay away from most seed oils, because of their high Omega6:3 ratio and therefore driving inflammation. I only use cold pressed coconut, olive and ghee. Only exception is lecithin for it's PC content or black seed oil for it's other properties. So in my life-long experience without fats I got prediabetes, by exchanging carbs with sat fats I could reverse it. Just shows how different we are all build.
     
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  12. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    >So in my life-long experience without fats I got prediabetes, by exchanging carbs with sat fats I could reverse it. Just shows how different we are all build.

    it may be that your not overdoing it with saturated fats and your liver has enough choline to process the saturated fats. you also may be moderating glucose spikes. research does clearly show a correlation between saturated fats and diabetes. I would just be aware of it. as we age, we become deficient in various nutrients. People who are deficient in choline in their liver will likely experience a degenerating liver when combined with too much saturated fats.

    I'm aware of the lectins etc as it pertains to seeds. It is interesting to see that people who had 5 cups of beans lentils, navy beans etc a week had way less diabetes.

    My experience with Conjugated Linoleic Acid (safflower derived) which is an Omega 6 has been really positive. I've been slim my entire life but one year everything went to hell. I couldn't lose weight. Not even diet and activity made any difference. I did research on the problem and decided to take 6 capsules per day. Nothing happened for over 6 months. I even forgot about the weight issue. I just continue to take it every day with my food robotically. Research said it needs to build up to a sufficient amount in body. About month 7, I woke up one morning and I felt different. I felt "lighter". I notice my waist getting slimmer fat wise. Soon all the fat weight was being replaced by muscle weight without any exercise. Soon no more weight problem. Didn't matter how many buckets of ice cream I later ate either.

    I came across research that said it must be taken with saturated fats or it won't work. Maybe like PPC, it helps break down saturated fat and allows body to metabolize it. This doesn't get mentioned with supplement much of anywhere and may have contributed to people's failure with supplement. Grass fed beef has CLA while non grass fed beef doesn't. I wonder if this is why red meat could cause damage. It also may help hypothyroidism. I've read contradictory stuff on CLA (derived from animal) research that it helps prevents and causes diabetes. I am onside that think it helps prevent diabetes. CLA / Omega 6 has become very big in body building crowd too.

    As far as the Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio, they say the average person is 17 to 1 ratio. I'm leery of the view that says we must have this very low ratio demonizing the Omega 6 oils as harmful. Outside of industrialized oils, natural fats are important for health. As far as ratios, I think a 1 to 1 ratio is extreme and absurd. Some Omega 3 can easily bring down the 17 to 1 ratio but I sense absurdity in striving for ratio of 1 to 1 unless it is for therapeutic reasons and temporary.

    It was saturated fats that caused my liver to get worse but I won't demonize natural saturated fats like ghee or coconut even though I would stay away from those for now. I think we need to concentrate on how to make the body better able to metabolize fats. I will continue to take the L-carnitine and PPC. If someone is reacting to seed oils then it is prudent to stay away until problem is figured out. Anything industrial or hydrogenated I'd stay away from. CLA is a natural trans fat which is healthy as opposed to industrialized trans fat which is bad news.

    I'll take a more moderate approach. Lower my ratio but I'm not going to.1 to 1 unless I have cirrhosis or worse or desperate or just experimenting. I'll continue to do research.

    As far as type 1 diabetes, milk protein probably from cows milk and maybe it is A1 milk could be behind the destruction of pancrease cells. They call it an autoimmune when really it is externally caused. I can't believe that the pancrease can't be regenerated some how with nutrients, natural medicines etc. I can understand why conventional medicine can't hardly cure anything.
     
  13. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    here is video on how one doctor cures type 2 diabetes
    There is a part 1 and 2
     
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    The low/zero carb community likes to claim that Inuits who eat traditional diet are free from heart disease and that their diet would apply to anyone. However, a high W3 intake is needed due to extremely low temperatures to improve blood flow in their environment. Context! Same applies to high iodine intake by the Japanese and the associated higher need for B12.
    Have you looked into Biotin to metabolize fats? I wouldn't try Biotin on its own, but I have been adding a little extra Biotin to my low dose B complex and noticed an increased appetite for fats.
     
    prioris likes this.
  15. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    The fact remains that I got prediabetes on a low fat, vegan diet - from age 10 to 41 ending with a serious PAD. Could reverse this trend by tripling saturated and mono saturated fat intake! So low fat really failed me badly. Ask yourself, did the research you mention differentiate between cold pressed or organic grass fed sat fats? Or have they even been indiscriminately been on a SAD, with all the HFCS and omega 6 oils? I rather follow Dr. Bernstein, who was able to reverse even Typ 1 diabetes.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuJ11OJynsvHMsN48LG18Ag
     
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  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I read a low carb forum and see multiple reports or T2D reversal daily.
     
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  17. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    I would say if you have high inflammation going on it would seem real strange to me not tor try out to lower that ratio.

     
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  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I didn't know he had a youtube channel! :woot::thumbsup:
    Can I envy his fitness here?

    I tried to go to the gym recently but failed. One of the reasons was lower back nerve pain. I think now I am tackling it with Biotin though (is the pain due to ammonia???), and if I manage to lower my pain will go back to the gym. Other reason was horrible pain like pins all over the body which I didn't recognize as lactate, but it subsided with magnesium at first, then bicarbonate, then rutin, and then I run out of what to try. Could it be ammonia as well? I seem to have very poor Biotin absorption from food for several years now.
     
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  19. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    biotin to metabolize fat ... i take 150 mcg a day in my b complex ... i'll wait for more research ... my intuition says biotin may effect fat metabolism but only in small ways or if a person is too deficient in it etc ... until a better optimal dose is determined, i just go route of moderation and figure there are bigger players like choline that have the larger impact ... we'll see
     
  20. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    Those are very interesting questions you ask.... cold pressed vs organic grass fed ... many studies don't ever get down to that level of granularity although i would like that to happen

    My main saturated fats came from standard commercial butter and coconut oil. I'm sure the commercial butter effected me but there have been quite a few reports of liver problems in some people who took coconut oil so the weight of evidence supports liver damage by saturated fats. I know my pain increased with it too. I rarely used hydrogenated oils.

    in your case i think tripling the mono saturated fat i think helps process the saturated fat. i view it as a form of diluting the saturated fats so the liver can process the fats better and avoid the harm saturated fats can do. choline also helps predigest the oils in stomach. omega 3 oils help with diabetes. i think if you didn't get that extra oil, your prediabetes would return.

    a vegan diet is going to make one more difficult to acquire choline nutrient too but i would think less fats would offset that. it has been said that oil fats benefit the liver so with way less it would hurt your liver.
     

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