How do we stop heart disease (Atherosclerosis, Arteriolosclerosis, Arteriosclerosis, calcification)

[prioris]

How many carbs/day do you eat?

First let's see if supplementation did help triglycerides. in the past years, i've been heavily weighted to protein and fats. i'll get my tests. I've been under eating because of all that is going on.

P.S.
I just realized I am taking Nettle root (for prostate problems) which it is helping as opposed to nettle leaf (kidney tonic) so urinary may actually be prostatis (inflammation/infection which is men's UTI). May explain why uva ursi never helped with urination. It just never ends ... LOL ... now more research to see where that leads ... having multiple problems rearing their heads at same time always makes things a pain in the rear end ... rather concentrate on one thing at a time

 

[pamojja]

Maybe a little Vitamic C currently. I tend to react to too much vitamin C in past so won't go above 1000mg... I've been traumatized by vitamin C ....

Huch? Please investigate this whole article for other approaches of dissolving kidney stones:

http://www.doctoryourself.com/kidney.html
http://www.doctoryourself.com/kidney.html
“I started using vitamin C in massive doses in-patients in 1969. By the time I read that ascorbate should cause kidney stones, I had clinical evidence that it did not cause kidney stones, so I continued prescribing massive doses to patients. To this day (2006) I estimate that I have put 25,000 patients on massive doses of vitamin C and none have developed kidney stones. Two patients who had dropped their doses to 500 mg a day developed calcium oxalate kidney stones. I raised their doses back up to the more massive doses and added magnesium and B6 to their program and no more kidney stones. I think that the low doses had no effect and they, by coincidence, developed the kidney stones because they were not taking enough vitamin C.”

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v09n05.shtml

I am trying to make kidney more alkaline which is what kidney likes. Vitamin C may make it opposite that.

Are you still sure of this hard dying myth?.. Look at me, had in average 23 g/d ascorbic acid for 8 years and the 3 occasions my arterial blood gases were measured blood ph came back consistently at 7.48 (7.35 - 7.45 normal range), with an average base excess of 3.3 mmol/l (-2 - +3 normal range).

I tend to react to too much vitamin C in past..

What was the reaction? And does it occur with plain ascorbic acid powder without the fillers too? Have you tried Sodium ascorbate powder instead?

I was using Modified Citrus Pectin twice a day when I felt more kidney pain around time I ate that spinach then got kidney stones.

I would rather suspect a correlation there then.

 

[pamojja]

First let's see if supplementation did help triglycerides.

Just in case, this list:

How to Reduce Triglycerides

• Fish oil—The omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil are our number one choice for substantially reducing triglycerides. Fish oil, 4000 mg per day, is a good starting dose (providing 1200 mg EPA+DHA); higher doses should be discussed with your physician, though we commonly use 6000–10,000 mg per day without ill-effect. Flaxseed oil, while beneficial for health, does not correct lipoprotein patterns. Consider a concentrated fish oil preparation (e.g., Omacor™, a prescription preparation, or “pharmaceutical grade” preparations from the health food store) if you and your doctor decide a high dose is necessary.
• Weight loss to ideal weight or ideal BMI (25). If achieved with a reduction in processed carbohydrates, the effect will be especially significant. Exercise will compound the benefits of weight loss, triggering an even larger drop in triglycerides.
• Reduction in processed carbohydrates—especially snacks; wheat-flour containing foods like breads, pasta, pretzels, chips, bagels, and breakfast cereals; white and brown rice; white potatoes. The reduction of high- and moderate-glycemic index foods is the factor that reduces triglycerides. High triglycerides are therefore a pattern that develops when someone follows a low-fat diet. For this reason, we do not advocate low-fat diets like the Ornish program. Reducing your exposure to wheat-containing snacks and processed foods is an especially useful and easy-to-remember strategy that dramatically reduces triglycerides.
• Elimination of high-fructose corn syrup—This ubiquitous sweetener is found in everything from beer to bread. High-fructose corn syrup causes triglycerides to skyrocket 30% or more.
• Niacin in doses of 500–1500 mg is an effective method of reducing triglycerides. Niacin also raises HDL, increases large HDL, reduces the number of small LDL particles, reduces VLDL, and modestly reduces total LDL. The preferred forms are over-the-counter Slo-Niacin® and prescription Niaspan®, the safest and best tolerated. Immediate-release niacin (just called niacin or nicotinic acid on the label) can also be taken safely, provided it is taken no more frequently than twice per day. Total daily doses of >500 mg should only be taken under medical supervision. Avoid nicotinamide and “no-flush niacin” (inositol hexaniacinate), neither of which have any effect whatsoever.
• Green tea—The catechins (flavonoids) in green tea can reduce triglycerides by 20%. Approximately 600–700 mg of green tea catechins are required for this effect, the equivalent of 6–12 servings of brewed tea. (Tea varies widely in catechin content.) Nutritional supplements are also available that provide green tea catechins at this dose. The weight loss accelerating effect of green tea may add to its triglyceride-reducing power.
• The thiazolidinediones (Actos®, or pioglitazone, and Avandia®, or rosiglitazone), usually prescribed for pre-diabetes or diabetes, can reduce triglycerides by 30%; Actos may be more effective than Avandia in this regard. However, these agents are accompanied by weight gain.
• The fibrate class of prescription drugs (fenofibrate, or Tricor®, and gemfibrozil®, or Lopid) reduce triglycerides 30–40%, i.e., almost as effectively as fish oil.

Track Your Plaque target: 60 mg/dl triglycerides

Copyright 2007, Track Your Plaque.

What is abnormal HDL and abnormally low LDL levels ?
...
So I would think a b-complex (which has niacin) and l-carnitine would suffice.

Never heard of. Where you saw this information?

 

[prioris]

Like that triglyceride target number. It helps.

I saw "abnormalities" here and didn't realize it was excerpted
Niacin is the most effective direct treatment for Lp(a). However, higher doses may be required than for other abnormalities like low HDL or small LDL.

P.S.
I have also read the research on vitamin C and kidney stones that found no connection. I am fully aware of it. I just mentioned it as remote possibility ... someone saying it and being traumatized with stones ... LOL . Bicarbonate of soda has research behind it so taking that route an alkalizing the kidney. Not that vitamin C could not be helpful. The real correlation cause was likely 2000-3000 mg of oxalates in SPINACH I ate. It was first time I ate so much spinach at one time too PLUS i have minor stone problem for a long while. Once kidney inflammation is resolved, maybe get xray and check for stones once i think they are cleaned out. During Gallbladder flush with chanca piedra I though I was cleaning them out but that spinach threw a monkey wrench into everything. I'll have to retest the MCP at later time.

 

[Valentijn]

I follow many paleo/lowcarb practiotioners on the web and their patients get really mad with the previous practiotioners who made them follow the official guidelines with no dietary changes.

I agree, but to a limited extent. Some Type 2 diabetics can control their blood sugar with diet and exercise. Many can not. At 20-25 carbs per meal, I was hyperglycemic all night, and couldn't go any lower without getting weak and sick.

But even Type 2 diabetes has a range of causes and complicating factors, so there really isn't any one diet that's right for everyone. In fact, a major reason I left an otherwise pretty good diabetes forum was because it was so focused on low-carb dieting (and related commercial sponsorship) that some forum members and moderators (elected by popular vote) were ignoring the actual diabetes in their pursuit of championing diets and exercise. For example, it's a really bad idea to encourage a newly diagnosed diabetic to exercise when they don't know what their blood sugar is and are having symptoms of hyperglycemia

I completely agree that the dietary guidelines are absolutely horrible, especially for diabetics. The dietician I saw initially told me to pretty much double my carb intake by adding a lot of bread to my diet, because I wasn't eating any. She did alter her stance when I explained what even 20 carbs per meal did to my blood sugar levels (and symptoms).

 

[prioris]

valentjin, what are the range of causes of type 2 diabetes.

what's the feeling about Dr McDougal. He says saturated fats are the primary cause of type 2 diabetes. Why does he have so much success treating type 2 diabetes.

 

[Valentijn]

valentjin, what are the range of causes of type 2 diabetes.

The few I know of are fatty liver, insulin resistance, mitochondrial disease, and damaged insulin-producing cells (which might arise from other causes). It can also be caused by inflammation of the pancreas. Some of those could probably be differentiated from Type 2, but in the Type 1/Type 2 dichotomy in the health care systems, everything that isn't Type 1 is Type 2.

If the problem is insulin resistance, a good diet, exercise, and weight loss can help a lot, and might make meds completely unnecessary. Fatty liver can be a complicating factor since it seems to get credited with keeping blood sugar elevated even with little carbs in the diet. Mitochondrial disease usually results in a need for insulin eventually, but oral or injected blood-sugar lowering drugs might help for a while. Depending on the damage done to the pancreas, a Type 2 diabetic might rely on insulin.

what's the feeling about Dr McDougal. He says saturated fats are the primary cause of type 2 diabetes. Why does he have so much success treating type 2 diabetes.

It sounds like a pretty ridiculous theory, and I never saw anyone discussing it.

 

[Gondwanaland]

what's the feeling about Dr McDougal. He says saturated fats are the primary cause of type 2 diabetes. Why does he have so much success treating type 2 diabetes.

It seems to be a well established fact in the low carb community that saturated fats + hi carb diet = worst outcomes re insulin resistance (I am sure there is some scientific proof behind it with RCTs, but I didn't save it).

 

[Gondwanaland]

BTW a LCHF / keto diet pushes one into full blown insulin resistance ("physiological insulin resistance"). According to Denise Minger, who reads all the research, this is a mere band-aid, and a full remission to carb tolerance can only be reached by a starch-only dietary intervention (e.g., rice or potato diet with not even salt added to it).

 

[prioris]

The few I know of are fatty liver, insulin resistance, mitochondrial disease, and damaged insulin-producing cells (which might arise from other causes). It can also be caused by inflammation of the pancreas. Some of those could probably be differentiated from Type 2, but in the Type 1/Type 2 dichotomy in the health care systems, everything that isn't Type 1 is Type 2.

It sounds like a pretty ridiculous theory, and I never saw anyone discussing it.

We're not talking theory but empirical. He's been very successful in his practice. Plus he backs it up with scientific studies.

When I put the pieces together, I come to the conclusion that fatty liver, mitochondrial disease and type 2 diabetes are all a fatty metabolism problem of some kind.

 

[Valentijn]

According to Denise Minger, who reads all the research, this is a mere band-aid, and a full remission to carb tolerance can only be reached by a starch-only dietary intervention (e.g., rice or potato diet with not even salt added to it).

Low-carb seems to work long-term for a lot of diabetics. And a starch only diet would be a complete nightmare - blood sugar would be off the charts.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Low-carb seems to work long-term for a lot of diabetics. And a starch only diet would be a complete nightmare - blood sugar would be off the charts.

I haven't looked into it to find out who would be the best candidates for it...

 

[pamojja]

We're not talking theory but empirical.

I haven't looked into it to find out who would be the best candidates for it..

Guys, it is so easy. Not to talk theoretical, nor empirical. But by measuring continuously your own blood-glucose - fasting and postprandial - to simply and directy know if YOU are worsening or reversing diabetes. And what causes it for you. Everything else is the experimental experience of others, and not yours.

 

[prioris]

Guys, it is so easy. Not to talk theoretical, nor empirical. But by measuring continuously your own blood-glucose - fasting and postprandial - to simply and direct could know if YOU are worsening or reversing diabetes. And what causes it for you. Everything else is the experimental experience of others, and not yours.

One first needs to put a foundation of understanding in place. Next, one needs to address the root cause - fatty acid metabolism dysfunction. Addressing it superficially with - don't eat this or that food - I don't think is the proper approach unless one needs to temporarily bail water out of the boat because it's sinking too fast. It's a stop gap measure. Just like minimizing saturated fats is. Addressing the hole in the boat seems like the most important thing.

 

[pamojja]

Well, you decide to follow a theoretical approach in preference to actually measuring all possible interventions.

It's not that actually measuring would not be based on understanding the root causes. Like for example higher glucose spikes changing lipo-proteins to the more small, dense atherogenic type. But without measuring you're moving into fairylands.

 

[prioris]

Well, you decide to follow a theoretical approach in preference to actually measuring all possible interventions.

It's not that actually measuring would not be based on understanding the root causes. Like for example higher glucose spikes changing lipo-proteins to the more small, dense atherogenic type. But without measuring you're moving into fairylands.

The avenue being used to treat type 2 diabetes by conventional medicine is definitely not the way to go. It's ok if someone wants to measure their glucose but even if it spikes or not, one is left to figure out how to fix it. If one is trying to actually fix the underlying problem then measuring glucose levels could be a useful tool. If one is just taking measurements and moving on, that's just letting the problem get worse and not addressing a particular problem then it may not be a fairy tale ending. Also those glucose readings may give one a false cause and effect relationship.

 

[pamojja]

If one is trying to actually fix the underlying problem then measuring glucose levels could be a useful tool. If one is just taking measurements and moving on, that's just letting the problem get worse and not addressing a particular problem then it may not be a fairy tale ending.

Ok, prioris. I'll word it a bid more direct: You have triglycerides in a range indicating your blood-glucose is going out of control. Causing downstream arteriosclerosis of the worse kind. Better yesterday than tomorrow, get a blood glucose meter (one for which you get test-strips most reasonably priced. You'll need many), start measuring and adjust your diet/lifestyle according to readings.

If you, for some reason, decide not to, I would feel sorry. Because to me it would finally confirm that you created this thread, 'How do we stop heard disease', for intellectual entertainment only.

 

[prioris]

Ok, prioris. I'll word it a bid more direct: You have triglycerides in a range indicating your blood-glucose is going out of control. Causing downstream arteriosclerosis of the worse kind. Better yesterday than tomorrow, get a blood glucose meter (one for which you get test-strips most reasonably priced. You'll need many), start measuring and adjust your diet/lifestyle according to readings.

If you, for some reason, decide not to, I would feel sorry. Because to me it would finally confirm that you created this thread, 'How do we stop heard disease', for intellectual entertainment only.

I haven't wrapped my entire head around this blood glucose stuff yet. I'm interested in solutions to problems. Not band aids. Something in the body is broken and needs to be fixed. I don't have any problem with glucose readings / diet / lifestyle but that isn't addressing what is broken in body unless it is part of a larger plan that addresses what is broken. That's what I'm trying to find the answer to. Remember on your list of things to do you had as number one - each person needs to address their particular problems. I want to address my particular problems. For all I know, my pancreas could be degenerating and have problems. I need to wrap my head around that as a possibility. Whatever the source of the problem is, I need to diagnose things too.

As far as my triglycerides, I told you before that I never had any means for bringing it down until in last 6 months. My last readings were over a year ago. I'll wait till I get new readings.The same time I got my triglyceride test , I had a A1C of 5.0 (normal) but that is something I throw in the waste basket as a meaningless test by itself as it pertains to blood glucose levels. My diet is already pretty strict. The next step in making it stricter would be going to an all bean and fish diet.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Something in the body is broken and needs to be fixed.

Much of the damage is non-reversible as it is caused by aging, so we just can't maintain some habits and it definetly calls for changes. We do need the band-aids as we go. If one gets hyperglycemia or reactive hypoglycemia, allowing the offenders act freely won't help. One effective method of reducing AGEs is by following what the glucose meter displays.

 

[prioris]

Much of the damage is non-reversible as it is caused by aging, so we just can't maintain some habits and it definetly calls for changes. We do need the band-aids as we go. If one gets hyperglycemia or reactive hypoglycemia, allowing the offenders act freely won't help. One effective method of reducing AGEs is by following what the glucose meter displays.

empirical experience has taught me that degeneration (which is what aging is) is reversible with the right nutrients. I try to seek out those solutions. I've never come across any successful band aid in my entire life that really did much. Band aids are only successful if the problem is minor. Once a problem gets beyond a certain point, band aids just don't work. Hyper/hypo glycemia is also diabetes.

P.S. Got my bulk powder of mannose yesterday so finally started to trying treat my kidney infection. Taking it every 2-3 hours. Hopefully it works.