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How do MTHFR and MAO A interact? Survey

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by Kimsie, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    Hi everyone,

    My husband has MTHFR 1298 +/- and MAO A -/-. I take this to mean that he has less ability to transform tryptophan into 5-htp leading to less serotonin, and he has a high ability to degrade serotonin, so he has always had some trouble with depression and also now he responds well to 5-htp supplements without mood swings. My DIL has MAO A +/- and she doesn't have MTHFR 1298 and she has some mood swings.

    I would like to gather more information about this if any of you want to contribute then please post your MTHFR 1298 and MAO A mutation status and also your average tendency to depression on a scale of 0 - 10 and your tendency to mood swings on a 0 - 10 scale, meaning mood swings within a single day. All information is useful, even if you are 0 scale on mood swing and depression. Also put down mood swings with 5-htp if you have tried it. You can add any relevant comments if you wish. Also you could comment on your response to depression medications if you have ever taken any and wish to share that information.

    For an example I would rate my husband like this:

    MTHFR 1298 +/-, MAO A -/-, Depression 2.5, Mood swings 0, Mood swings with 5-htp 0

    Thanks!

    Kimsie
     
  2. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    NW US
    Hi Kimsie,

    I was just looking through your posts, and I noticed this one. I'll give you mine-- since I'm the opposite of your husband on MAOA. I have never had a problem with depression, but I have a very high tendency towards anxiety and panic, which I believe relates to my COMT mutations as well as probably other things. I am very slow in breaking down dopamine and norepinephrine, and tend towards mania when taking supplements with methyl donors. I'm MTHFR C677T -/-. I tried a small dose of citalopram once to see if it would help with anxiety and it made me feel like I was going insane.

    MTHFR 1298 +/-, MAO A +/+, Depression 0, Mood swings 0, haven't tried 5-htp.
     
  3. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    My son has schizophrenia, so the COMT mutations are of special importance to me and I have been studying and thinking about this very subject and I may have some ideas that will interest you. My son is ++ for both COMT V158M and H62H.

    The COMT enzyme especially needs two things in order to work. It needs niacin, which is an integral part of the enzyme, and it needs SAMe, which donates the methyl group to degrade the neurotransmitters. If you happen to be low on niacin for any reason, whether it is because of mutations or diet, you will not be able to make enough COMT.

    Our 2 year old grandson was going wild yesterday and his mom told me that he was withdrawing from sugar. Well sugar depletes niacin, so I knew the little guy's COMT wasn't working right so we gave him 20mg of niacin and in 10 minutes he was a different boy, you wouldn't have believed the change. So niacin or niacinamide is something that might help you, in fact, it MIGHT be ALL you need as far as anxiety and panic are concerned. Try taking 500mg three times a day and see if it helps. If it works but the effect wears off then you need a larger dose or a more frequent dose. If you are worried that you are using up methyl groups then take smaller doses and just take more each time your symptoms return. If it doesn't help at all, then you need to look at your methionine cycle and try to get your SAMe levels up.

    I took a quick look at your posts, but I didn't see your 23andme results anywhere, but I know you have a double on the one that possibly reduces folate absorption so I hope you have started to take about 5 mg of either methyl folate or folinic acid a day. You might need some B12, but I don't know about you MTR/MTRR mutations. I really don't believe that you need to worry about methyl donors if you take niacin, but on the other hand, I don't think you need methyl donors. I think the people who have trouble in that way are actually low in niacin, not too high in methyl groups. I explained that in another post, maybe you saw it.

    Giving niacin, folate and B12 helps my son with schizophrenia to at least have a mind that is more clear, but I think we are running into the same problem with him as with our other son, who has high histamine, that is, draining methionine out of the cycle because of the feedback loop from high methionine and SAMe turning on CBS and draining the substrate (homocysteine) out. They both have the same CBS upregulations, and I think this may be the one thing that the CBS upregulations are really significant for: when a person needs a higher amount of SAMe than their body holds in the cycle. If they didn't have the upregulations they would have higher homocysteine and thus higher substrate in the methionine cycle.

    I hope this helps!
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
    sregan, Gondwanaland and npeden like this.
  4. npeden

    npeden NPeden, Monterey, CA

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    This is great info on COMT which I am ++ but I also have a TH which is low dopamine so I seem to tolerate tyrosine.

    What I wanted to share is that I am also MAO A and my ND put me on Gaia Passion Flower Ticture and it works really well. I do two squirts in the morning and one or two in the late afternoon. Its base is harmaline. Here is the wikipedia link to harmaline: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmaline

    My acupuncturist and herbalist who sometimes likes to do mind altering drugs, says they use harmaline for some of their "trips" as some of these shut off MAO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
  5. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    MTHFR a1298c +/+ MAO A +/-

    Depression tendency is probably a 7; and mood swings are probably at a 5 now, but were probably closer to a 8 or 9 when I was in my 20's and early 30's.

    I've taken 5-htp but I didn't notice any changes in moods nor depression while on it. But, I didn't really start it until after I had been really sick for quite a long time and it hasn't been a part of my methylation treatment protocol (yet, anyway).
     
  6. npeden

    npeden NPeden, Monterey, CA

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    Penny

    I take 5 htp not for the serotonin; it does nothing for me but to have serotonin in my gut for my bowels, believe it or not. This was rec. by a health practitioner who is MTHFR, and knows a lot about gut being the home of many neurotransmitters.

    I highly recommend you get brave and try some Gaia (best brand) passion flower tinctur
     
    PennyIA likes this.
  7. npeden

    npeden NPeden, Monterey, CA

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    Just noticed that somebody asked if MTHFR and Passion Flower interact. I don't think they do but then I am not an expert. MAO A is not a defect of MTHFR; it is a mutation of the neurotransmitters.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I am +/+ for both MAO-A and MTHFR A1298C.

    I get serotonin syndrome from taking as low as 30mg of 5-HTP. It takes about 2 doses two days in a row to get intolerable. I never had depression, but have always been less happy than everyone else. Don't know how to rate that.

    I had to start taking citalopram in late July, after terrible imbalances induced by methylfolate/salicylate overload/stopping all supplementation since March. I think I was getting depression form excess ammonia/HYPOTHYROIDISM. Magnesium helped but wasn't enough. I can only tolerate 10mg of citalopram, as opposed to the usual 20mg. Starting T4 replacement took some months to improve and today I am changing to compounded T4/T3.

    Monthly cycles, methylcobalamin and protease exacerbate mood swings to 10, plus probably something in my diet linked to - I think - estrogen increase. I would say I have always had mild mood swings (5-6?), plus OCD tendencies (5-6?).
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
    npeden likes this.
  9. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    I think that folate can increase ammonia because when people who have fatigue issues take a lot their body tried to use the folate pathway to produce ATP, which I explained in another post that I think you have already seen.

    Have you ever tried taking niacinamide, say 500 mg? That would probably help the mood swings. Just try it some time when you are in the middle of a bad one and see if it helps. I think maybe sometimes when people get mood swings it is because they don't have enough niacin.
     
    npeden likes this.
  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    The only severe mood swings I had this year were due to mB12 and protease (I've had only 3 monthy periods this year with no mood swings).

    My 1st B complex had 30mg niacinamide on it, but I felt much better (happier liver apparently) when I switched to 20mg niacin.

    I am currently not taking any B vits since they are making me sleepy (I think due to my current low T3 levels).

    I do not tolerate high doses of anything I've already tried (e.g. 1.5mg mB12 and 800mcg mFolate were too high for me). Though I read somewhere that high doses are needed for treating mental illnesses like in the case of (one of) your sons.

    Yes, I have been reading with interest all of your posts, but just can't hold all the info in my head :oops:
     
  11. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    I don't know if the underlying cause of your illness metabolically is the same, so you might not respond to the same things. It might be that your mitochondria are fine, and your thyroid is at the bottom of your problems.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I think thyroid and metals. I do have aluminum on top of my MAO-A, and I'm sure mercury is an issue as well. I am trying to get better in order to replace amalgalms. NO safe dentistry where I live.

    I am also trying to look into my mitochondrial +/+ SNPs.
     
  13. picante

    picante

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    Helena, MT USA
    Izzy, we just found out that my husband has the same combination, and he's +/+ for the two COMT snps!
    Let me know how that goes, please. I'm struggling with trying to add in some T4 to my all-T3 regimen.
    julie
     

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