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How do I know if I am having "Die off"

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by xlynx, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    xlynx,

    I had to be away from electronics for a day due to a laser detox, so missed this exciting Betaine HCL saga. I'll just jump in and say ME TOO!

    I had super low stomach acid as tested by swallowing a tiny radio transmitter and doing a bunch of stuff with baking soda and HCL. I too rely on Betaine HCL and am sure it helps with the damn candida.

    Sushi
  2. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    xlynx---

    Glad to hear your enthusiasm, :victory: I don't want to put a damper on that. :Retro tongue::Retro tongue::Retro tongue:
    Just want you to be realistic. If your candida was fully established, it will take some time to get your gut in order and to get candida under control. But I think you'll be on the right track by trying out the Betaine HCl. That will be the first step. Then once you're digesting properly, you can figure out what else is needed.

    Giving the liver some assistance will ease the effects of toxicity, but finding the right herbs for that may take some experimentation. Some people do best with the milk thistle, some with dandelion, and others do better with bupleurum. My personal favorite blood cleanser is red clover, which I sometimes drink by the quart. I make a strong tea from the flower buds and drink it all day. You'll have to feel out which herbs are right FOR YOU.

    So good luck with it all. Keep us posted. And please... don't burn a hole in your sofa! :eek::Retro wink::Retro smile:
  3. rhiannon

    rhiannon

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    I used to have a lot of problems with candida but now I'm almost trouble -free since I stopped drinking black tea.
  4. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Black tea... hmmmm? :confused: I wonder how that affected candida? Did you put sugar in it?

    I've never heard of black tea a problem for those with candida, but I'm sure there is a reason why it helped you to stop drinking it.
  5. rhiannon

    rhiannon

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    As you may know, we usually drink a LOT of tea here in the UK. I assumed that I'd just developed an intolerance to it. Taking sugar with it was not an issue as I continue to eat plenty of sugar in biscuits. It wasn't the milk in it either as I drink lattes now instead. On the subject of intolerances, I've noticed that I can't touch bananas because they give me IBS. It's all very specific to one food. For instance, eggs give me acne and dates give me mouth ulcers.
  6. Catseye

    Catseye Senior Member

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    Chinese bitters!

    The easiest place is vitacost, cheap and nice on shipping. Just get a tincture bottle of bupleurum and a tincture bottle of gentian root. I use the Nature's Answer brand. Together they come to $17.35 and since shipping is $4.99 for any size order, it's a great place to pick up anything you need. Be careful, you can spend hours on there. They have a very large tea selection that I have spent hours going through. :Retro tongue:

    Strange, I just looked up the Chinese bitters ingredients on there. They have the gentian in 1 or 2 oz bottles for the same price, so you may as well get the bigger one. They don't even refer to these things as Chinese bitters, only bupleurum and gentian root, if you are going to use the search function. The taste is really, really bitter so you may want a chaser on hand, even if it's just water.:scared:
  7. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    noooooo, I lost my post :Retro mad:

    Thanks for the info from vitacost catseye I had a good check on vitacosts which lated about 35 mins and have not yet finished making the purchase I could buy everything (getting parcels in the post is an excitement as I cant shop at the moment). Would be great to have a alcoholic chaser but hey right now I think water might be the best bet :D

    Dreambirdie are you talking about red clover tea like this http://www.vitacost.com/Alvita-Caffeine-Free-Red-Clover I think I will give that a shot also and see what works best for me.

    The good news for me is that I am feeling a little better after cutting back on the anti fungals so we slowly step up again over the next few days.

    Just wanted to ask if I should expect to feel any improvement when I finally beat candida, my doctor thinks I should feel alot better? Has anyone noticed improvements after it has gone. I am also waiting for a cdsa and hope this will show me something I can work on.

    I read somewhere that black tea can kill off good bacteria in the gut maybe had something to do with that.
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    For me getting candida under control was a biggie! :victory:

    I felt a lot better....time after time after time! It is a battle with many rounds--for me anyway. I now have discovered that I can't be complacent--I need to do maintenance. As for how much, I pop a couple of caprylic acid caps about twice a day (about 1000mg) and also take a couple of drops of Young Living Oils oregano oil in a capsule with some olive oil. Or I use BioTics tablet oregano.

    Until I discover the roots of being susceptible to candida, it is an ongoing skirmish. :ashamed:

    Sushi
  9. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    Hi Sushi,

    lol I like the bit about an ongoing skirmish.

    I hope the same applys for me then :).

    Are you now able to ever eat things with sugar or the occasional glass of alcohol?

    I miss the naughty things!
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    xlynx,

    No! :Retro mad:

    Sushi
  11. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Yup I am. I get mine in bulk by the 10 pound bag. :eek::Retro tongue::Retro tongue:
  12. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Funny! :Retro tongue::Retro tongue::Retro tongue::D



    I definitely can, but only occasionally! And not when I'm dragging.
  13. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    Dreambirdie and all - HCL

    I have a strange history with HCL. I have been ill 11 years. Over the course of that time, I tried HCL several times. EAch time I needed huge numbers of pills to get heartburn (14 or so) and one time I didnt' even get it.

    Last year, after taking potassium broth, a little zinc (like 10mg) I got heartburn after only 2 pills. I thought Great! problem solved. I then wait and had the Heidelberg test and it confirmed my stomach acid was sufficient.

    Time went on, I did the baking soda test periodically and it was hard to tell if I passed or not b/c I have background burping anyway but I thought I was passing the test.

    I'm back on HCL now, 3 iwth normal meals, 2 with smaller and no heartburn. But after reading Dreambirdies post, I'll increase more and hopefully get heartburn at a reasonable dose.

    Dreambirdie - how much weight did you gain ? That is such good news.
  14. Julia Rachel

    Julia Rachel

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    Hi Xlynx:
    I've had the same experience as those that wrote before you.....I backed off on the anti-fungals for 3 days, felt better, then knew they worked. And...if I ate anything off of my diet....signs of the yeast returned...(bloated/headaches/gas/fungus in my mouth,etc...). Die-Off is especially rough for me, so there is no doubt when it is happening. The Major Die off in me lasted for 90 days...and I kept having to repeat the procedure a few times, but it got easier after Round #1 ... I do not know if this is normal or what "normal" is.......... I commend you for hanging tough!
    Julia...
  15. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm taking extra Betaine HCL (in addition to what's in my digestive enzyme supplement) partially because it was recommended for people with adrenal problems, leaky gut, and also for a couple other things. I recently read that Betaine HCL was good for candida because the acidic environment killed the yeast/fungal parasites which was good news since I've been treating possible candida problems for many years now (although some people say it's good to be alkaline, but maybe this is different than pH in the GI tract). Then today I read that an acidic environment will kill probiotics as well. This about Sucralose (aka Splenda), but I assume the information applies to use of Betaine HCL as well

    I've been having loose bowels for the past month or two (around the time I started taking Betaine HCL), but before that I had chronic constipation for at least 2 years. This could be coincidence, but when I was on antibiotics earlier this year and also when I took a colloidal silver supplement (which also has antibacterial properties) I had diarrhea so I know killing probiotics can cause those problems for me. I'm also concerned about other "natural" antifungals which also can potentially kill probiotics.
  16. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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  17. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Has anyone had die-off from Pau D'Arco? I know it's recommended for Lyme and Candida, but I wasn't sure how it works specifically. I don't take it every day and it seems like the days I take it I feel worse. There's a lot going on with my health right now so I can't be sure it's causing it.
  18. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I think it's worth pointing out that some people including Rich Vank and Dr. Cheney theorize that a large percentage of people with CFS have virus/infections. Many antifungals such as caprylic acid, oregano oil extract, garlic, and grapefruit seed extract have antibacterial properties too so die off might be from something else other than candida. I guess you could try Nystatin or Diflucan alone to see if those cause die off since I think those don't have any antibiotic properties. Also, with the antifungals that have antibacterial properties be aware that they will also kill probiotics. Some people recommend taking probiotics in the morning and antifungals in the evening. Others recommend alternating one week taking only antifungals and one week taking only probiotics.
  19. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Some ME/CFS specialists recommend taking probiotics in the evening, so maybe vice-versa--anti-fungals in the morning and probiotics in the evening.

    Sushi
  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Do you know what the reason is for that? I take probiotics first thing in the morning because that's when my digestive power is the weakest so the probiotics won't be destroyed by my stomach acid. I guess if your probiotics are enteric coated or you take them on an empty stomach it won't matter when you take them.

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