Lipkin's Monster ME/CFS Study: Microbes, Immunity & Big Data
The Microbe Discovery Project outlines an ambitious new study by top researchers that has collected patient samples, but needs desperately funds to complete the work.
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How can we "stimulate" mTOR?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Sushi, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    CT has much more to do with increasing AMPK than mTor. In that respect, it's still very relevant.

    The hormone question isn't that relevant. CT revolves around BAT. Estrogen increases BAT (this is 100% expected), DHT lowers it (likely 5-AR inhibited), testosterone appears neutral, so with CT you get roughly +/-/variable estrogen/DHT/test. Homeostatis over time (less related to acute exposure) might be something else. Estrogen can actually contribute to muscles too.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392498/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1621488
    http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0037/ea0037gp.09.07.htm
    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ije/2012/789653/
     
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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  3. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Avoid excess aromatase inhibitors (paper enclosed)
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    You can add luteolin to the list:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22226506
     
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  5. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Good find but I think that's circumstial and the cell type thing again. Luteolin is anti-angiogenesis and anti-cancer (also stuff in liver - foxo1 issues): http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0052279 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4885545/ (the abstract sucks, the full paper is nice)
    It's not without benefits but I definitely don't seek it out personally (seems too hard to avoid entirely).

    Anyhow in that paper they're mostly interested in how it mimics NGF. So anything on this list is a possible alternative: https://selfhacked.com/2016/03/27/all-about-nerve-growth-factor-and-50-ways-to-increase-it/
     
  6. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Yeah, you're probably right. On that note we can probably write off almost any flavonoid/antioxidant.
     
  7. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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  8. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Seems to work as a general rule for flavonoids. Problem is they're impossible to avoid.
     
  9. EtherSpin

    EtherSpin Senior Member

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    I am so glad to hear you say that after virtually checking every damn box on the mTor inhibitors list for 3-5 years
    (caffeinated drinks,metformin,curcumin,intermittent fasting etc) - I take L-theanine reasonably regularly and have a few tablespoons of powder form dissolved into a water bottle in the fridge for quick addition to any beverage.
    - its the anxiety eradicator that got my eldest kid attending school every day last year after having panics most mornings and worked well for me in early days of CFS when POTS emerged and the anxiety wasn't stratospheric but I try to cycle it now as it has much diminished effects .

    I'm considering dropping all those mtor inhibitors I'm on but am nervous as its a big change and so far seems like slim evidence that CFS people all have a problem
     
  10. XenForo

    XenForo

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    Well if you do drop them, let us know your results!
     
  11. EtherSpin

    EtherSpin Senior Member

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    I am in that situation we all probably get to periodically - my fog is such that I am baffled and can't keep track but I am right now having fantasies about dropping the Metformin (1 year on it as attempt to lose weight after 4 years prior of different fasting methods with hardcore enthusiasm!) and making some easy to shake up morning drink powder that has theanine along with a protein powder and digestive enzymes

    crowd funding development of CFS specific supplements is something I would be into because its too hard to keep track of the ratios of what would be useful to us but the science is so contentious I can't see it happening for another couple of years

    I will definitely report any progress if i ditch the drugs that impact mtor but for now Im off to get the shaker bottle and my L-theanine water + amino mix !
     
  12. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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  13. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    @aquariusgirl Wasn't PPAR delta found to be upregulated in ME/CFS by Fluge and Mella?
     
  14. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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  15. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Methylcobalamin:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21458538
     
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  16. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    It's very interesting - in the brain specifically. I read this similar one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20045411
    and what jumped out was that in those conditions the effect lasted 72h as opposed to 1h for BDNF.

    But they write as if straight out of Freddd's playbook (he must have read all these) that achieving high enough concentrations in CNS is extremely hard. They also wrote this:
    For what it's worth I still take take subl. MB12 once or twice a week. But with or without folate+cofactors it didn't come close to the brain effects of other substances on me, so I'll never really know its full therapeutic use until I decide to try large injections someday. (SAMe petered out quickly and does nothing)

    I still wonder a lot about the context and secondary effects of this though.
     
  17. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Infrared light:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4408556/
     
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  18. Jill

    Jill Senior Member

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    I used to find high dose b12 helpful but no more. It's now hydroxycoblamin rather than methyl - would that make a diffference ?
     
  19. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Good idea to look at that! I already do this with lights when I remember but I didn't think to look from this area. It tends to help but it can be draining. That it would increase PI3K/Akt makes a lot of sense.

    It's worth pointing out the upregulation of c-Myc, this usually means enhanced mitochondrial activity, cell proliferation and/or protein synthesis. You can kind of look for this as a marker instead of mTor.
     
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  20. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Methyl tends to be stronger, but the methyl effects lessened over time on me. I'm not convinced it's supposed to be sustainable. You'll find other opinions.
     

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