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How can we "stimulate" mTOR?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Sushi, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I think a few ways have been identified--leucine, ketamine....? I am experimenting with hefty doses of BCAAs (containing leucine) and while it is not preventing fatigue or increasing endurance, it does seem to largely prevent PEM. What other ways are their to stimulate mTOR? And if I have the terminology wrong, please correct me!

    This seems like something that we might be able to safely experiment with until research tells us more--reducing the mTOR inhibitors and increasing things that stimulate it.
     
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  2. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I thought mTOR only showed up on 2 samples? Isn't it a bit soon to be assuming we all have this issue and need to be doing something about it?
     
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  3. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    Only mutations in mTOR were found in two people but according to Prof Davis mTOR is central to this disease. @Sushi I plan on making a post about my mTOR and Akt activators. I've found quite a bit, and like you my PEM is much improved.
     
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  4. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    Oh, okay. I misunderstood and thought it was only found in two people in total.
     
  5. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    @nandixon Has laid out in several posts how when you extrapolate from the latest Fluge and Mella study the one theory that fits best is an underactive Akt/mTOR pathway. Still unknown what causes this. Probably some unknown immune dysfunction.
     
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  6. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    Just doing a quick read it would seem that the most important thing to stimulate mTOR is resistance training and exercise intensity. Could this be why we have this issue as we are unable to exercise, especially intensely?
     
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  7. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    Depends on the exercise. Aerobic exercise inhibits mTOR and causes me PEM whereas some light weight lifting doesn't, and what do you know it activates mTOR.
     
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  8. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Alone & Wandering

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    The mTOR pathway is implicated in dozens of major diseases from cancer to autism. To say it is central to ME/CFS is not unique and leads us nowhere quick.

    Continuing to uncover the source of the mysterious molecule discovered by Davis is by far the most promising lead we have. Experimenting drugs to inhibit this molecule too of course.
     
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  9. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Theanine is also an mTOR activator. I bought some today and also ordered BCAAs.
    @Sushi
     
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  10. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    We aren't the researchers. We're patients desperate to find relief. And guess what, activating mTOR has completely destroyed my PEM. So, while I'm excited as you are by Prof Davis' work, I believe mTOR is central to at least PEM. Do a little research on @nandixon 's theory of ME/CFS and you will see how we came to this conclusion, that apparently Prof Davis has now confirmed.
     
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  11. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Thanks, another thing I'll try!
     
  12. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    @Sushi mTOR is part of a pathway called PI3K/Akt/mTOR.

    Things that activate mTOR; BCAAs (upregulate), glutamine, citrulline, AKG, Glycine, Opiods (upregulate)

    Things that activate Akt and therefore mTOR; Florinef, Cimetidine, Taurine, TUDCA, Uridine, Rhodiola, Cordyceps

    Off the top of my head that's what I've found so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  13. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Thanks, very interesting. Most of those are easily available. I've been taking a pretty good dose of Taurine and BCAAs but I'll try adding in a few more of these. Have you found that your endurance has increased as well as preventing PEM? So far, for me, just adding in the BCAAs for a week, I haven't had PEM when I ordinarily would have but my endurance for physical activity (I've been gardening a bit for the last two days) has not increased at all. Maybe if I add in some more of these?
     
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  14. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

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    Please indicate which brand is good. Thanks!
     
  15. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

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    Please indicate doses...
     
  16. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    So my understanding from prior threads is that we want mTOR to be in a balanced state and we are hypothetically under active. @Sushi - I too have been using BCAA's (L-Glutamine and L-Arginine mix w/ L-Citrulline), creatine, and cimetidine. I'm really just a mess, trying different things to see what will work and I wish we had more understanding personalized medicine to guide us. Is it working? Yesterday over a two hour span I was able to brush my horses and rode one for just a bit, although my husband did all of the tacking. My upper arms and back were very sore that night, but I did not have PEM today!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  17. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I've just been using powdered BCAAs made by NOW, but I'd think any reputable brand would be fine. I had to go up to 2,500 mg to get this effect. I haven't tried more to see if that is "better." I am taking it in divided doses on an empty stomach.
     
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  18. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    The NOW brand is L-leucine, L-valine and L-isoleucine. I haven't tried adding glutamine yet but I'm cautious about Arginine due to its pro-viral properties.
     
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  19. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

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  20. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    Yes, prior posts have discussed problems with outbreaks after L-arginine. Some people say adding Lysine has helped. I have not had any problems yet. I will look into L-leucine. Maybe just a quality BCAA mix would suffice?
     
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