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Horrifying article in Sunday Times

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by MeSci, May 5, 2013.

  1. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    From my blog: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/greenwashing.1258/


    The Denial Process

    This is my interpretation of the process, following on from Walker. Step one, limit the scope of investigation and the number of patients examined. Step two, deny chemical causation. Step three, claim hysteria as a cause. Of course there is no objective test to confirm hysteria, and so it cannot be refuted directly. Then follow with lobbying to support this process.

    1. Limit The Scope. Limit the scope of the enquiry. Look at only a handful of hundreds of patients. Limit the questions being asked. Limit the research being considered. Limit the argument to irrelevant trivialities. Misdefine and redefine as much as possible.

    2. Deny Causation. Deny any biomedical claims of causation. Deliberately confuse claims with nonsensical claims. Use lack of data about the incident to promote doubt.

    3. Claim hysteria. Invoke unproven and unprovable claims of hysteria, mass hysteria, functional syndromes or the equivalent. Refer to older unproven claims as though they substantiate the current claim.

    4. Lobby for the hysteria viewpoint. Lobby against the biomedical viewpoint. Primarily use pursuasive and political rhetoric rather than primarily use evidence and reason to support the claim. Lobby for no further investigation, therefore ensuring that more data in support of biomedical causation will be harder to obtain. Invoke irrelevant claims as part of the political process, such as claiming that victims are conspiring to distort the science, or that the victims are under the influence of a cult that believes chemicals cause disease.

    The book goes on to describe two major chemical incidents, the role of insurance companies, and of course how many industries fund public relations groups in relation to these matters. The two chemical incidents discussed are Camelford and Love Canal.
    snowathlete, ahimsa, Enid and 4 others like this.
  2. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    And what happened afterwards to the people of Camelford was exposed, in court as an actual conspiracy!
    But now what do we get? MORE CONSPIRACY to silence it.
    I *loathe and despise* the UK system, it's perverse, evil and happily sacrifices people for profit.
    And Wessely is one of it's tools
    .

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22200035

  3. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Ang...tory-18754932-detail/story.html#axzz2SjPrgpTZ



  4. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    I'll give folk who may not be familiar with the sick perversity of the UK's "system" some more stuff ot think on, and how it uses people like Wessely, or groups like ATOS, to do their dirty work and take any blame

    UK service personnel told Sarin (nerve gas was "common cold cure" and poisoned, one died)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/sep/28/military.antonybarnett

    Gruinard island, poisoned with anthrax during WW2 experiments
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruinard_Island

    Coulport, where the UK stores it's hydrogen bombs, 25 miles from Scotland's largest city, it's services now PRIVATIZED ot a consortium
    anyone like the idea of living downwind from 160 hydrogen bombs in a depot that's being privatized? (minus the usual 40 installed in active submarine so usually 120 or so)
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/safety-warning-on-coulport-sale.14249631

    Sellafield world's worst nuclear mess bar Mayak and maybe Fukushima
    those ASSHOLES, dumped two TONS of uranium oxide into the Irish sea over the years
    they FALSIFIED safety certificates of Japanese nuclear materials

    and have over 100 tons of Plutonium stored on site
    etc etc...stuff they've done is insane
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellafield

    Current..abuse scandal, they KNEW about such 24 years ago and covered it up.

    court cases quoted in newspapers from that time PROVE this and it is NOT about "entertainers", talking Whitehall and Westminster
    since kids may somehow read this page won't post that stuff, really foul

    Town my Dad lived in during WW2 got bombed flat by the Germans, to this day our government still lies about how many really died, why? It was 70 years ago


    I could go on at great length. This is "cover up country", makes me want to puke :(


    snowathlete likes this.
  5. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I've not been able to keep up with this thread, but I just wanted to add re Wessely's Camelford work that he never uses the H-word. His work is cited (approvingly) by some other academics as showing symptoms in Camelford as being a result of hysteria, but Wessely himself never clearly asserts that he thinks this is the case. He does his usual thing of implying without saying. (This is from memory, rather than something I've checked recently, but I think that the above is accurate)
    SilverbladeTE likes this.
  6. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Alex
    aye! it's been refined down to a science, all the media, even the BBC now, are corrupt liars for the "corporate fascists"
    makes "1984" look like child's play.
    jimells likes this.
  7. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    Funny how these nasty articles often quickly lead to group therapy. :)

    A good rant feels good once in awhile.
  8. Nielk

    Nielk

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    I feel that we are playing into his hands by giving him so much attention. Have all our comments made any difference in the past?
  9. Bob

    Bob

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    I understand both points of view here. I don't think there's a 'correct' approach to the situation, in terms of how to respond, or whether there should be any response. People just have to do what they are comfortable with. But I do think that challenging 'factual' information is always helpful, if done accurately and succinctly.
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Implying without saying is a stock in trade of psychosomatic research. They sometimes do this by redefining words that have a more benign or different meaning, so that a casual reader will easily misinterpret the comments. The PACE trial did this with "normal" and "recovery".
    ahimsa, biophile, Enid and 1 other person like this.
  11. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology - the study of ignorance, particularly scientific dogma, and the deliberate creation of ignorance such as explaining away disasters, disease outbreaks or tobacco causing cancer.
  12. Nielk

    Nielk

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    Group therapy is good. If it makes you feel better to get your frustrations out here, I'm all for it. Adversely, if it only fuels anger and frustration, I would suggest a more productive way to spend energy and brain power.

    Since there are so many knowledgeable people on this thread, I would like to ask for a favor to help me out. I plan on giving oral testimony at the May 22, CFSAC. Jennie Spotilla wrote an article here listing several recommendations to the CFSAC. Which one or two would you pick as the most urgent to talk about?
  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    He doesn't need to use that specific word. This very weird site lists former terms for 'Functional and dissociative neurological symptoms':

    http://www.neurosymptoms.org/#/in-the-mind/4533053408
  14. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    planet earth
    Hi Neilk,

    That kind of what I meant. Get the frustrations out. Rant a little about the "dark knights" if you will. It helps to know others understand the dysfunction once in awhile.

    However, we shouldn't dwell on this thereby allowing the media and psychiatrists to keep the human family divided with some Machiavellian alternate reality.
    Nielk likes this.
  15. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    I agree with Nielk really. Negative publicity like this appalling article (which does rather smack of desperation) makes us angry, it makes us want to rant and react, and so it creates the very problems the article purports to be highlighting. In that sense it's a vicious cycle.

    There can be value in sharing our frustration, and there's a place for challenging the negative press, but if you let yourself get caught up in that you're letting them set your agenda instead of setting the agenda yourself. That just plays into their hands. Don't play their game.

    Better to rise above all that and be part of setting a positive agenda yourself. That's a more effective way to fight back: people tend to appreciate positive messages and positive ideas far more than negative ones.

    Right now, we have a major fundraising campaign (MEandYou) for Rituximab trials, the FDA and CFSAC are inviting feedback from patients, and ME Day is approaching this weekend: a great opportunity to raise funds for research and raise awareness. Write to your local newspaper; highlight organizations like ME Research UK, or the Open Medicine Institute, or another organization raising funds for biomedical ME/CFS research. Never forget, when campaigning on awareness, to suggest to people where they might usefully donate. Focusing on contributing to those efforts seems to me like a much better use of limited energy.

    As the Chinese proverb has it, it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness.
  16. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Very good post. I'd add, if you see opportunities to comment on online coverage of ME at any time (including in Awareness Week), mention those charities (tell people to google for them if you can't post a link). There are a lot of PWME who aren't aware of research charities or forums like ours where they can get information about them and they and their families might join in the effort if they were.
  17. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    For me, I find it valuable to be able to vent the frustration I feel with newspaper articles like this. Likely because anybody I know off the internet just isn't interested. I have an agenda of not sitting on my frustrations and I do feel it's important to say something for that reason alone because not saying anything sucks more energy out of me in the long run than taking a few minutes to write a post.

    I am okay with a little venting on the one hand and a whole lot of advocacy on the other. :)
    Countrygirl, ukxmrv, MeSci and 4 others like this.
  18. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Nielk -- You might get more input about this if you start a new thread. :)
    Nielk likes this.
  19. TheChronicSituation

    TheChronicSituation

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    The basic mistake that Michael Hanlon makes in his piece is this. Sufferers of ME and CFS are not, as he seems to think, worried about the shame or stigma of having a psychological condition. We are not worried about what people will think if they discover that our illness is mental.

    The reason that this is so damaging is that is stops us getting better. If we are treated as having a psychological condition, when we don't in fact have one, then we are not going to improve.

    We want to get better. And when the medical establishment misunderstands the nature of the illness so profoundly, then this ultimate goal, a full, healthy life, becomes almost impossible. That's the key to the anger, it's not difficult to understand.

    More at my blog...http://thedamnchronicsituation.blogspot.ie/2013/05/the-sunday-times-article.html
    Valentijn, Countrygirl and biophile like this.
  20. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    Has this happened on Wall Street yet?

    Simpsons.S24E19.bullarrested.jpg
    ahimsa likes this.

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